Posted on 05/13/2008 4:32:39 PM PDT by teacher12
Hey.. how do you folks feel about prayers in public schools? It's a controversial issue so just wanted to hear what you guys have to say on the matter. In favor/opposed and reasons.
As far as prayer in public school goes, corporate prayer is very problematic, individual prayer is okay by me. We didn't pray as a class in public school when I was a child, and my daughters went to a Lutheran grade school where prayer was not controversial.
I was in public school four decades ago, and while we recited the Pledge we never prayed or read the Bible. I think that a recitation of the Pledge is fine, it's part of civics. I certainly don't want faculty-led prayers or Bible readings, though.
If Islam becomes the dominant religion here, you will be impacted as the Islamic calls to prayer will sound 5 times a day every day and the muslims around you will pull out their prayer rugs in the middle of the day (where scheduled breaks will occur).
A time will come when your religion of choice is on the short list and your kids will be praying to that other religion (Insert name here).
One upon a time it was against the law the be a Christian.
Some time later it was against the law to be anything but a Christian.
Such was the glory of Rome.
It is best if you all could just keep your religion to yourself and instruct the kids as you wish at your own dime on your own time. Schools should be left as secular as possible and teach the three R’s and little else.
We didn’t either, and I am sure I am a lot older than you :>)
I do not want the government intruding in anybody right to worship, and that includes prayer. Institutionalized prayer I do not support, but if a group wants to pray, have at it.
Welcome to FR. Hope you’re here for more than this vanity.
This country was founded on strong Judeo-Christian principles. Given that, prayer in school should be a naturally occurring ritual.
That it has not been for 50+ years says a lot about where this country is headed.
I don’t believe that pray is a waste of valuable time. Once we go that route, it’s over.
Many years ago our founders devised a Republic where people would have freedom of conscience, a Nation of religious liberty.
“Among the most inestimable of our blessings, also, is that... of liberty to worship our Creator in the way we think most agreeable to His will; a liberty deemed in other countries incompatible with good government and yet proved by our experience to be its best support.” —Thomas Jefferson: Reply to John Thomas
“Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting “Jesus Christ,” so that it would read “A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;” the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.”
-Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom
I know that's what we did when we home schooled.
Otherwize, after the tea party, we'll meet again on Lexington Green.
Are you really a teacher?
Where?
What grade?
I was in Kindergarten the year John Glenn went into outer space. (Boy am I getting old!) I never remember prayers in class. We also recited the Pledge and sang My Country 'Tis of Thee. I wonder if it was a regional or state custom? I grew up in Detroit.
I agree here. The minds of students, even in high school are still very impressionable. I am, however, a proponent of individual prayer and personal Bible readings. If the students wish to practice their religion during their free time, power to them. Our school systems are presently quite amoral, what with dress-habits, colorful speeches by students and general lack of discipline. A little faith shown by some students might help bring some sanity and some conviction to the general body of students. It would be a great way for the faithful to witness to those who have not yet accepted Christ
If you want prayer in school nothing is going to stop the students from praying on their own time, have your children organize a group.
If you want teacher led government enforced prayer to Jesus Christ reading out of the KJ Bible in most of the nation, maybe the Catholic Bible in Maryland, the Book of Mormon in Utah, the Koran in Dearborn Michigan; the Constitution forbids it - and I think we can all see why.
That was in first grade.
I discovered girls in second grade and don't remember much of anything after that.
Regardless that Justice Black wanted everybody to think that Jefferson's "wall of separation" somehow meant that the establishment clause was meant to be applied to the states, Jefferson had acknowledged that the Founders had written the 1st and 10th Amendments in part to reserve government power to address religious issues uniquely to the states. In fact, Jefferson had done so on at least three occasions. See for yourself.
"3. Resolved that it is true as a general principle and is also expressly declared by one of the amendments to the constitution that ‘the powers not delegated to the US. by the constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively or to the people’: and that no power over the freedom of religion, freedom of speech, or freedom of the press being delegated to the US. by the constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, all lawful powers respecting the same did of right remain, & were reserved, to the states or the people..." --Thomas Jefferson, Kentucky Resolutions, 1798. http://tinyurl.com/oozooSo by quoting Jefferson to help justify his special-interest interpretation of the establishment clause, Justice Black actually quoted probably the worst person that he could have quoted to help justify his dirty work."In matters of religion, I have considered that its free exercise is placed by the Constitution independent of the powers of the general government. I have therefore undertaken on no occasion to prescribe the religious exercises suited to it; but have left them as the Constitution found them, under the direction and discipline of State or Church authorities acknowledged by the several religious societies." --Thomas Jefferson: 2nd Inaugural Address, 1805. ME 3:378 http://tinyurl.com/jmpm3
"I consider the government of the United States as interdicted by the Constitution from intermeddling with religious institutions, their doctrines, discipline, or exercises. This results not only from the provision that no law shall be made respecting the establishment or free exercise of religion, but from that also which reserves to the states the powers not delegated to the United States. Certainly, no power to prescribe any religious exercise or to assume authority in religious discipline has been delegated to the General Government. It must then rest with the states, as far as it can be in any human authority." --Thomas Jefferson to Samuel Miller, 1808. http://tinyurl.com/nkdu7
1st Amendment: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
10th Amendment: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Regarding Black's special-interest shenanigans, note that "former" Klansman Justice Black was not only a Roman Catholic-disdaining Baptist, but also consider that certain Baptists regard Matthew 22:21 as God's call for absolute c&s separation. So Black was possibly happy to twist the meaning of the establishment clause to stop Catholic religious exercises in public schools even if it meant stopping Protestant religious exercise from being practiced too. If this was the case, then Black wrongly put his personal beliefs ahead of his oath to defend the Constitution as evidenced by his misrepresentation of Jefferson's ideas concerning c&s separation.
So regardless what Justice Black wanted everybody to believe about the establishment clause, the states have the constitutional power (10th A.) to authorize public schools to lead non-mandatory (14th A.) classroom discussions on the pros and cons of evolution, creationism and ID, as examples, but also including praying in public schools, regardless that atheists, separatists, secular judges and the MSM from misleading the people to think that doing such things in public schools is unconstitutional.
But also keep in mind that even if there is nothing unconstitutional about Christian prayer in public school, Matthew 6:5-8 shows that Jesus taught his followers to be discreet about praying, not making a public spectacle out of it. So even if the honest interpretation of our 1st A. rights puts no restrictions on things like public school prayer, Jesus essentially did.
I have no problem with individuals quietly praying. But state-sponsored prayer is not a good idea.
Government schools are failures, everyone should pray to end this fiasco. The Government money should be given to states in lieu of property taxes collected to provide for schooling and the people should petition local government for qualified teachers after the people build the common schools for their kids. Then you could have a one room school for atheists and regular school for parents who pray, non-Christians can build their own school or sign an agreement not to impede the Christians. If this doesn’t fly then prayers in school is impossible.
As long as there are math tests there will be prayer in school.
This is why not.
"Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other religions, may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other sects?" - James Madison.
We live in a small town. When my son was in high school, (he opted for the local public school instead of continuing in the snooty private school he’d attended since 3rd grade) where a moment of silence and a short prayer was said before each football game, baseball game, basketball game, etc. The principal and guidance counselor both told me that the prayer would continue and if Washington sent the entire Supreme Court, Congress and Senate down here, it would still continue and quite frankly the federal government could kiss their you-know-whats. None of the parents ever had a problem with it. Great school and excellent teachers, too.
teacher12, please understand that Free Republic gets a lot of "interlopers", usually detected by posting a thread on the very same day they signed up. That alone will explain some of the comments on this thread.
Hang in there and watch... You'll find a lot of traditional Christians here.
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