Posted on 05/10/2008 12:21:53 PM PDT by Alex Murphy
1. There is but one only,a living, and true God,b who is infinite in being and perfection,c a most pure spirit,d invisible,e without body, parts,f or passions;g immutable,h immense,i eternal,k incomprehensible, l almighty,m most wise,n most holy,o most free,p most absolute;q working all things according to the counsel of his own immutable and most righteous will,r for his own glory;s most loving,t gracious, merciful, long-suffering, abundant in goodness and truth, forgiving iniquity, transgression, and sin;u the rewarder of them that diligently seek him;w and withal, most just, and terrible in his judgments,x hating all sin,y and who will by no means clear the guilty.z
2. God hath all life,a glory,b goodness,c blessedness,d in and of himself; and is alone in and unto himself all-sufficient, not standing in need of any creatures which he hath made,e nor deriving any glory from them,f but only manifesting his own glory in, by, unto, and upon them. He is the alone fountain of all being, of whom, through whom, and to whom are all things;g and hath most sovereign dominion over them, to do by them, for them, or upon them whatsoever himself pleaseth.h In his sight all things are open and manifest,i his knowledge is infinite, infallible, and independent upon the creature,k so as nothing is to him contingent, or uncertain.l He is most holy in all his counsels, in all his works, and in all his commands.m To him is due from angels and men, and every other creature, whatsoever worship, service, or obedience he is pleased to require of them.n
3. In the unity of the Godhead there be three persons, of one substance, power, and eternity: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost:o the Father is of none, neither begotten, nor proceeding; the Son is eternally begotten of the Father;p the Holy Ghost eternally proceeding from the Father and the Son.q
a. Deut. 6:4. Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD. 1 Cor. 8:4, 6. As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.… But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. See Gal. 3:20.
b. 1 Thess. 1:9. For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God. Jer. 10:10. But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.
c. Job 11:7–9. Canst thou by searching find out God? canst thou find out the Almighty unto perfection? It is as high as heaven; what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst thou know? The measure thereof is longer than the earth, and broader than the sea. Job 26:14. Lo, these are parts of his ways: but how little a portion is heard of him? but the thunder of his power who can understand? See Ps. 139:6.
d. John 4:24. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
e. 1 Tim. 1:17. Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen. See John 1:18.
f. Deut. 4:15–16. Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves; for ye saw no manner of similitude on the day that the LORD spake unto you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire: lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female. Cf. John 4:24 with Luke 24:39.
g. Acts 14:11, 15. And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men.… and saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein.
h. James 1:17. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. Mal. 3:6. For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
i. 1 Kings 8:27. But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded? Jer. 23:23–24. Am I a God at hand, saith the LORD, and not a God afar off ? Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD.
k. Ps. 90:2. Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God. See 1 Tim. 1:17.
l. Ps. 145:3. Great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised; and his greatness is unsearchable. See Rom. 11:34.
m. Gen. 17:1. And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. Rev. 4:8. And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
n. Rom. 16:27. To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.
o. Isa. 6:3. And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory. See Rev. 4:8.
p. Ps. 115:3. But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased. See Isa. 14:24.
q. Isa. 45:5–6. I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: that they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. See Ex. 3:14.
r. Eph. 1:11. … in whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will.
s. Prov. 16:4. The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. Rom. 11:36. For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen. See Rev. 4:11.
t. 1 John 4:8. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. See 1 John 4:16; John 3:16.
u. Ex. 34:6–7. And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children’s children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.
w. Heb. 11:6. But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
x. Neh. 9:32–33. Now therefore, our God, the great, the mighty, and the terrible God, who keepest covenant and mercy, let not all the trouble seem little before thee, that hath come upon us, on our kings, on our princes, and on our priests, and on our prophets, and on our fathers, and on all thy people, since the time of the kings of Assyria unto this day. Howbeit thou art just in all that is brought upon us; for thou hast done right, but we have done wickedly. See Heb. 10:28–31.
y. Rom. 1:18. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness. Ps. 5:5–6. The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man. See Ps. 11:5.
z. Ex. 34:7a. … keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty. See Nah. 1:2–3, 6.
a. Jer. 10:10. But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation. See John 5:26.
b. Acts 7:2. And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran.
c. Ps. 119:68. Thou art good, and doest good; teach me thy statutes.
d. 1 Tim. 6:15. … which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords. See Rom. 9:5.
e. Acts 17:24–25. God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; neither is worshipped with men’s hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things.
f. Luke 17:10. So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.
g. Rom. 11:36. For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
h. Rev. 4:11. Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. Dan. 4:25, 35. That they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and they shall wet thee with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over thee, till thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.…and all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou? See 1 Tim. 6:15.
i. Heb. 4:13. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
k. Rom. 11:33–34. O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counseller? Ps. 147:5. Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite.
l. Acts 15:18. Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. Ezek. 11:5. And the Spirit of the LORD fell upon me, and said unto me, Speak; Thus saith the LORD; Thus have ye said, O house of Israel: for I know the things that come into your mind, every one of them.
m. Ps. 145:17. The LORD is righteous in all his ways, and holy in all his works. Rom. 7:12. Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
n. Rev. 5:12–14. Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.
o. Matt. 3:16–17. And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: and lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Matt. 28:19. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. 2 Cor. 13:14. The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen. See Eph. 2:18.
p. John 1:14, 18. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.… No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. See Heb. 1:2–3; Col. 1:15.
q. John 15:26. But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me. Gal. 4:6. And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
There is no other head of the Church but the Lord Jesus Christ.[13] Nor can the Pope of Rome, in any sense, be head thereof; but is that Antichrist, that man of sin, and son of perdition, that exalts himself, in the Church, against Christ and all that is called God.[14]
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/creeds3.iv.xvii.ii.html
Maybe so in 1647, but I hardly think that an apt descriptive today. The author should have stopped with simple statement of fact that Jesus is the head of the church. Everything south of that was just opinion.
**The author should have stopped with simple statement of fact that Jesus is the head of the church.**
What Petronski isn’t telling you is that most, if not all Presbyterians, have removed the part about the Pope being the anti-Christ from the WCF.
Just watch as he continues to post the same thing on each of WCF posts.
I made no claim about what any denomination has done. The thread is about the Westminster Confession of Faith, which I have accurately quoted and linked.
Sure. Right.
But like the MSM you just happen to leave out some key facts.
I left out nothing.
Except no one holds to that anymore.
I’ll keep track.
Post 4
Post 4
Post 3
Looks like his reflexes are improving.
Fair enough. I was only referring to the other blog that got shut down. I have avoided getting into discussions with the good Doctor and I think it is best to leave it that way. Still, professional courtesy should have been followed and should have pinged him. My apologies.
Regards
Do not make this thread "about" another Freeper.
Gamecock:
Lets look at this from both an historical perspective and how the 16th century statements from Trent about the Protestant groups that split from Rome be they (Anglican, Lutheran, Reformed, etc) and how those same Protestant Confessions made statements about the Catholic Church and Catholics.
The Westminister Confession does say what Petronski stated. So, my questions to you are 1) How many different Groups still hold to the Westminister Confession and 2) Which Reformed body has removed the 16th century polemic that the Pope is the anti-Christ and given 1 and 2, question 3 is: How many Reformed Confessions hold to the revised Westminister Confession as you described it?
From the Catholic perspective, Trent did issue anathma’s against those holding the positions that Luther, Calvin, Zwingli held. However, two Catholic councils have occurred since the close of Trent in 1564, Vat I and II, 1870 and 1965, respectively, and Catholic Doctrine has developed and stated that the anathma’s due to the divisions of the 16th century that resulted in large numbers of individuals splitting from Rome and forming Protestant Communities is an issue that is a sad one for Western Christianity and sins on both sides were to blame.
Furthermore, Rome has clearly taught that the sins of division of the 16th century can’t extrapolated to todays Protestant Christians. Please note the following quote from the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
CCC 818 “However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers. . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.”
The Catholic Church again makes it clear that all who are Baptized into the Holy Trinity are in some communion with the Catholic Church, but the Eastern Orthodox Church is closer to Full Communion with the Catholic Church than Protestants. Again, the CCC states:
CCC 838 “The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter.” Those “who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church.” With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound “that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord’s Eucharist.”
So, while I have cited authoritative texts that clearly articulates the Catholic position, can you provide me with and authoritative pronouncement that supports your thesis that those Reformed Christian Bodies holding to the Westminister Confession no longer hold the view that the Pope is the antichrist.
Thanks in advance
I don't have the time to wade through each Presbyterian Web Site. Plus I think the PC(USA) and the Cumberland Presbyterian Churches are irrelevant for the point of this discussion, since they are PINO. But you what you ask is fair considering I made the statement, so I will address the following bodies:
The PCA:[of which I am a member] "The Presbyterian Church in America received the same Confession and Catechisms as those that were adopted by the first American Presbyterian Assembly of 1789, with two minor exceptions....the reference to the Pope as the antichrist (XXV,6)." It now reads: 6. There is no other head of the Church but the Lord Jesus Christ. Nor can the Pope of Rome, in any sense, be head thereof.
The OPC: 6. There is no other head of the church but the Lord Jesus Christ. Nor can the pope of Rome, in any sense, be head thereof.
The Bible Presbyterians: 25. There is no other head of the church but the Lord Jesus Christ: nor can the pope of Rome in any sense be head thereof.
The Evangelical Presbyterians: 25.6 There is no other head of the church but the Lord Jesus Christ. Nor can the pope of Rome, in any sense, be head thereof.
I'm sure if you searched hard enough you could find an independent Presbyterian Church or some small assembly that I am unaware of, that holds to the Pope being the ant-Christ, but none of the above, which to varying degrees are right of center, do so.
I am one who will be waiting, along with you, to see if the WCF still holds that position—naming the Pope the “Anti-Christ”.
Earlier, I read that in Presbyterian bodies,”only the officers have to subscribe to the Westminister standards”.
If that is truly the case, then at least the officers may agree and not deny the belief that the Pope is the Anti-Christ. As I have previously posted, this position has been posted more than once on these forums and, when posted, was not denied or repudiated.
It may be difficult to understand (though I don’t see why) that Catholics should be more than merely concerned to read that their spiritual leader is named Anti-Christ.
It also appears to me that such is the teaching of men and not to be found in the Scriptures.
To 17.
ROE, it's been previously denied and repudiated. Both PAR35 and I have addressed your earlier questions re the same, but if you still don't believe the answer given, you can always read ahead, since I'm posting the entire Confession (reformatted for FR) from the same URL for every chapter.
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