Posted on 05/06/2008 10:06:47 PM PDT by sevenbak
He wrote to me in all innocence, a reader from a Catholic country where Mormon missionaries had only recently begun to gather congregations of believers. "I asked my priest," he said, "and he told me that Mormons are a cult."
Setting aside the obvious riposte ("What did you think your priest would tell you, that Mormonism was true Christianity as restored by God to living prophets?"), I think it's worth considering just what we mean by "cult" and seeing whether it applies to the Mormon Church.
Cult as Bad Word
Anti-Mormons use "cult" the way gay activists use "homophobe"--as an ad hominem epithet hurled to try to silence any persuasive opponent whose ideas can't be countered on their merits.
When used this way, "cult" just means "religion I want you to fear so much you won't listen to them." Or even, "religion I want you to hate so much that you will remove it from the list of churches that deserve constitutional protection."
But just as "homophobe" has a core meaning (someone with a pathological fear of homosexuality to the degree that it interferes with his life), so also with "cult." The only reason it works as name-calling is because there really are religious groups that do--and should--scare us.
There are real examples of what we mean by cults: Jim Jones' group that destroyed itself in mass murder and suicide in Guyana, or those sneaker-wearing folks who killed themselves to join aliens approaching behind a comet. And even though the Branch Davidians may not have been as monstrous as they were depicted in the media, they still clearly fall within what we mean by that word.
What do they have in common?
Charismatic Founder. Cults gather around charismatic individuals who are the sole source of truth to their followers.
Exploitation. The leader enriches himself through the financial contributions of the members, or gathers personal power that he uses to exploit members in other ways to benefit himself. If the group survives the leader's death, it remains a cult if his successors continue that exploitation.
Automatons. The members are discouraged from thinking for themselves, and, insofar as possible, are turned into unquestioning "obedience machines."
Withdrawal and Isolation. Perhaps because exploitation and obedience are easiest to maintain when the ordinary world can't offer its distractions and attractions, cults tend to withdraw physically, seeking ever greater isolation. This is often used as part of the conversion process, to keep the prospective member from hearing counterarguments.
Are All Religions Cults?
It's worth pointing out that there are very few religions of any size or influence that did not begin with a charismatic founder and whose members did not seem, to outsiders, to behave in much the way I've just described. A humble, wise teacher can always be charged with "setting himself up as the sole source of truth" merely because he offers any unusual idea. The gathering of money to help the poor or pay for meetinghouses or publications can be called "exploitation." The natural desire of converts to live according to the teachings of their leader can look like lockstep blind obedience to those who live a different way. And if outsiders persecute the new religion, it is only natural that adherents will want to band together and get away, if only for a few hours at a time, to be able to practice their religion in peace.
All religions have a body of teachings that becomes a lens through which the believers see the world around them. To those who don't believe, the lens seems to be a distortion of reality--though of course, those unbelievers are merely distorting reality their own way, through their own lens. No one sees reality without passing the data through the lens of their own preconceptions.
All religions also form a community, however loosely organized, of like-minded believers who set the standard of correctness. Whether that standard is rigid or relaxed, those who cross it are expelled from the community and are treated as heretics, apostates, or infidels. Severe treatment of heretics can be found from the lowliest cult to the largest church, from the most rigid sect to "open"-minded, post-religious academia.
You have to get fairly close to a new religion in order to see whether it is acting like a cult or like a religion. Most of those who hurl the word "cult," however, do not bother to get close. And those who do are often so grimly determined to attack that they distort all evidence in order to support the charge.
How Does Mormonism Measure Up?
Joseph Smith was a charismatic leader, but he was murdered 156 years ago. Nowadays, we have leaders who, while sometimes gifted at communication, are rarely of the dramatic, movement-founding type. Indeed, I feel safe in saying that the majority in my lifetime have been rather dull and gray, and they are followed far more because of their office than because of any personal charisma.
Exploitation? As for exploitative leadership, this charge is absolutely false and always has been. Joseph Smith passed the money test with flying colors: He died poor and in debt, not because of profligate spending, but because any money that flowed into his hands flowed right back out again in attempts to benefit the saints and build the church.
In the years since, a handful of church offices have become salaried, but the salaries are merely enough to sustain normal family life. The perks of wealth are shunned even by those church leaders who were rich before being called to one of those rare salaried offices. And church leaders constantly struggle to eliminate the sycophancy, the cult of personality, and the general "sucking up" that are bound to arise in any hierarchical organization.
By any honest measure, Mormon church leaders, from Joseph Smith on, have a remarkable record of genuine humility. They really do try to be the servants rather than the masters of the saints. Automatons? Those who have actually lived in a Mormon ward--and especially those who have tried to lead a group of Mormons in any kind of activity--can all affirm one truth: Mormons may well be the most stubborn, independent-minded group of people ever assembled as a religious community.
Joseph Smith received a revelation that established the only style of leadership that actually works in the Mormon church (or, in the long run, anywhere): You can only lead by persuasion, by love, by patience, by your own willingness to learn from those you lead. Every now and then, some local Mormon leader will try to give orders or attempt to manipulate people into doing things his way. But he very quickly learns that the more he does that, the less obedient we Mormons become.
Far from being robots, most of us Mormons are, by inclination and by doctrine, determined to make up our own minds about everything. It's a core doctrine of Mormonism that each member of the church is personally and individually responsible for their own relationship with God.
Isolation? As for the cultish trait of isolating converts from any other influence, or brainwashing them till they can't think for themselves, our method of teaching would-be proselytes is the opposite. We usually teach them in their own homes. Our missionaries come for a little while and then leave them to themselves to read, ponder, and pray. We counter the attacks of anti-Mormons by telling the truth about our beliefs and practices, not by trying to cut off contact with our opponents.
Far from becoming isolated, a new convert to Mormonism is taught to be more respectful and loving to parents, spouse, children, and other family members and friends. They usually do better at their careers and education, and if withdrawal takes place it is because their new Mormon lifestyle and beliefs are rejected by their family or friends.
Kettles and Pots
On all these points, I daresay that the Mormon church is less cult-like than many of the religions that delight in calling us one.
Indeed, calling Mormonism a cult is usually an attempt to get people to behave like robots, blindly obeying the command that they reject Mormonism without any independent thought. Kettles, as they say, calling the pot black.
Here's the simplest statement I can make: If Mormonism were a cult, I would know it, and I would not be in it.
Color me shocked and amazed.
LOL!
Mormonism is polytheistic (many gods) and as such has much more in common with other polytheistic religions, than Judaism or Christianity.
Kinda like an Obama supporter asking if Obama is a marxist, and answering "no."
Read the title again.
Who are YOU calling...?
It’s been said so many times on FR in recent months, consider this a blanket response. I don’t know how you operate, but I refuse to let others define me or my beliefs.
Amazing statement!
He makes the rules and sets the rewards and punishment.
All is His creation and we will play by His rules or die by our own, for He will give us exactly what we demand someday.
Whether or not we refer to your "religion" as a cult, does not matter, it is God that does and brother, that does matter.
The doctrine is ancient and modern. Most Christians don't even know their own Church Fathers believed this stuff prior to the Nicean councils of the 4th century.
You may find this of interest.
Saint Irenaeus, who may justly be called the first Biblical theologian among the ancient Christians, was a disciple of the great Polycarp, who was a direct disciple of John the Revelator.[4] Irenaeus is not a heretic or unorthodox in traditional Christian circles, yet he shares a belief in theosis:
Like the LDS, Irenaeus did not believe that this belief in any way displaced God, Christ, or the Holy Ghost:
Yet, Irenaeus—whom it is absurd to exclude from the ranks of orthodox Christians—believed in theosis in terms which agree with LDS thinking on the matter:
Also:
And:
And:
And, Irenaeus considers the doctrine clearly Biblical, just as the LDS do:
Further quotes from Irenaeus available here.
Said one Protestant theologian of Irenaeus:
Clement, an early Christian leader in Alexandria, also taught the doctrine of deification:
And:
Origen also defined what it means to "participate" in something:
Justin the Martyr said in 150 A.D. that he wishes
Also,
In 347, Athanasius, Bishop of Alexandria and participant in the council of Nicea, said:
He also states that Christ "became man that we might be made divine." [24]
Augustine, considered one of the greatest Christian Fathers, said
Jerome also described the deification of believers as an act of grace, which matches the LDS understanding precisely:
Jerome goes on to say that we should
The Westminster Dictionary of Christian Theology describes "deification" thusly:
Joseph Fitzmyer wrote:
According to Christian scholar G.L. Prestige, the ancient Christians taught that the destiny of man was to become like God, and even to become deified.[30]
William R. Inge, Archbishop of Canterbury, wrote:
Yet, these "arrogant and shocking" doctrines were clearly held by early Christians!
This view of the early Christians' doctrines is not unique to the Latter-day Saints. Many modern Christian writers have recognized the same doctrines. If the critics do not wish to embrace these ancient doctrines, that is their privilege, but they cannot logically claim that such doctrines are not "Christian." One might fairly ask why modern Christians do not believe that which the ancient Christians insisted upon?
The previous section demonstrates that theosis has been taught by many Christians through the centuries. They pulled these beliefs from the Bible itself.
Theosis or deification is discussed in the following biblical scriptures:
In conclusion, it is proper to cite Origen:
True, some may dislike this doctrine, but it is ancient, Biblical, and true.
In regard to the Mormon doctrine, non-LDS scholar Ernst W. Benz has observed:
For more quotes about theosis see: Primary sources:Theosis
You are free to define your own beliefs. However, to post a Mormon's analysis of his own belief system (which largely ends up begging the question) - an analysis which reaches a conclusion totally unsurprising to apparently everyone but you - is not a strong argument against Mormonism being a cult. That is not to say an argument could not be made. This just ain't it.
I’ve heard that the Mormon religion requires practicing Mormons to divorce their spouses (and, of course, seek custody of kids) if the spouse leaves the religion. This is in stark contrast to Catholicism, which forbids such divorce, and charges the faithful spouse to inspire reconversion back to the church through faithful love in the marriage. Further, Mormon friends are to shun the apostate; And what friends would an apostate Mormon in a marriage have besides Mormons? Non-Mormon must be excluded even from witnessing Mormon marriages.
If these assertions about Mormonism are true, it’s a cult.
They also believe that God was once a man, do they not.
Lastly, they also believe in other gods of other universes, do they not.
A yes to one means Mormonism is polytheistic.
No, that’s not true.
A perfect example of why I’m posting this thread, and others like it. What you hear, and there are many sources, is wrong. Ask any Mormon what a “part member family” is. There is no such admonition from the LDS church.
What claims have been made that are erroneous?
I have witnessed it in my own family and as to divorcing a spouse that decides to no longer be Mormon, is one of the quickest way to get a divorce that I can think of.
Not only do they shun the non-Mormon spouse, they also shun any other family (parents, sisters, brothers, grandparents, etc. in favor of Mormon in-laws.
LOL. Read the post that you are responding to, #9.
- Charismatic founder: Joseph Smith. ✔
- Exploitation: Joseph Smith had 33+ wives. ✔
- Automatons: See Exploitation. ✔
- Withdrawal and Isolation: Utah. ✔
It's pretty obvious that Mormonism walked like a cult and quacked like a cult, at least in its early days. Whether it's still a cult is perhaps open for debate.
FReepers continually refuse to go to the source, so the source is coming to them.
Some use the word "cult" to describe confessions they loathe or fear.
To some non-Christians, Christianity is a "cult."
And so on.
When the term is used academically in debate on this Religion Forum it is not considered "bigotry."
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