Posted on 04/30/2008 7:47:49 AM PDT by Pyro7480
Some Protestants accuse the Catholic Church of having dropped one of the 10 Commandments. "You're idolators! You worship statues! And because you do, your Church dropped the commandment against graven images!"
The truth, of course, is that the Catholic Church did not and could not change the Ten Commandments. Latin Catholics and Protestants simply list them differently. It is incredible that such a pernicious lie could be so easily spread and believed, especially since the truth could easily be determined by just looking into the matter. But the rumor lives.
Now, below are the ways in which Protestants and Roman Catholics enumerate the Commandments:
[See link above or below]
So what the heck? What did happen to the commandment about graven images in the Catholic listing? Did the Church just "drop" a commandment?
Um, no. The Old Testament was around long before the time of the Apostles, and the Decalogue, which is found in three different places in the Bible (Exodus 20 and Exodous 34 and Deuteronomy 5:6-21), has not been changed by the Catholic Church. Chapter and verse divisions are a medieval invention, however, and numbering systems of the Ten Words (Commandments), the manner in which they are grouped, and the "short-hand" used for them, vary among various religious groups. Exodus 20 is the version most often referred to when one speaks of the Ten Commandments, so it will be our reference point here....
Thanks, that’s really sweet of you to say so. It’s a blessing to be entrusted with teaching our parishes young people about our traditions, our faith and our Lord.
Many Christian that I know have a high regard for the Holy Father. I think it’s great when we can rally around the things that we agree upon, while putting the rest aside.
If you ever need proof of the growing kinship between Catholics and other Christians I would highly recommend a trip to the Lifemarch in DC in January. It’s amazing experience that will build up faith in your fellow Christians ~ and the good vibes last a lifetime!
Well, it’s nice to have a positive religion thread here in FReepland! Christ’s peace be with you and yours, as well, on this National Day of Prayer.
We are not supposed to pray to the saints. Praying to the saints is a pagan practice. We are supposed to pray directly to God the Father in the name of Jesus.
King Saul and the rich man in Luke 16 prayed to saints, and look what good it did them.
That's odd. I've been told countless times here on FR by FRCatholics that ya’ll don't pray to Saints.
Not so. It is perfectly proper to pray to the saints asking them to intervene with God for an intention for someone or something.
Every day Catholics pray nine day devotions called novenas to a particular saint asking for intercession with God. And we pray directly to God as well. :)
Not according to many FR-RCs.
Anyway, the variety of beliefs of RCs here on FR shows that each one fancies them self to be a pope in their own right.
They are incorrect. Novenas to saints and miraculous medal devotions to the Blessed Mother have been a mainstay of Catholic faith for centuries.
I am wearing a St. Anthony’s medal right now!
Do you place flowers at a gravesite? Or next to a casket? Do you bury your dead in their finest attire? Why? Do you expect your dead loved one to express their happiness at decomposing in a three piece suit? I never saw a dead man thank anyone for the flowers.
So what? Where does Scripture say that St. Paul is the best Christian ever? Who's the idolator here?
I have no desire to bash Catholics or the Catholic Church but the prayer TO saints in Heaven is wrong. That’d be like me asking my pastor to heal me or help my husband find a job; all I can do is ask him to intercede on my behalf with the Lord, who is the one to answer, not any mere man.
Why do we have pastors in the first place? Everyone can direct their questions and concerns about Scripture to the Supreme Author, Himself. Why do you allow a human being to mediate for God?
No, actually, we have a central teaching authority called "The Magisterium".
Protestants have a mirror, and that's about it.
“That’s odd. I’ve been told countless times here on FR by FRCatholics that ya’ll don’t pray to Saints.”
If they have said that, they are wrong. We Catholics pray to saints for their intercession. We worship God alone.
Most Catholics would say that as shorthand, in a way, as 95% of Protestants in my experience do not differentiate between prayer and worship, prayer being the only form of worship they have. So when a Protestant asks a Catholic, “Do you pray to saints?”, the correct answer is no, as far as the word is understood to mean worship in context. When a Catholic asks a Catholic, “Will you say a prayer to the Little Flower for me?”, the correct answer is yes, because both parties know no worship is involved :)
“Most Catholics would say that as shorthand, in a way, as 95% of Protestants in my experience do not differentiate between prayer and worship, prayer being the only form of worship they have. So when a Protestant asks a Catholic, “Do you pray to saints?”, the correct answer is no, as far as the word is understood to mean worship in context. When a Catholic asks a Catholic, “Will you say a prayer to the Little Flower for me?”, the correct answer is yes, because both parties know no worship is involved :)”
You are right. This is in essence an argument over semantics.
If I ask my pastor to pray FOR me, he is not mediating anything. There is no mediator between God and man other than the Christ. If you don’t believe that, we part ways kid. As for saying St. Paul is the best Christian ever, you obviously didn’t get the point and I’m not going to waste my time trying to penetrate your thick skull.
It is not the same thing - but again, guess you can’t get it. Maybe you want people to have their loved ones laid out in their birthday suit.
Instead of actually saying anything intellectual, you just ask a bunch of questions. How annoying can a person be? Well, in your case, actually quite.
When they have a life march in DC in the summer, maybe I’ll go. They always do the Million Man March and those things when the weather is good but all of us pro-lifers have to freeze. No thanks. I’m not good at standing out in the cold for long periods of time.
They are incorrect. Novenas to saints and miraculous medal devotions to the Blessed Mother have been a mainstay of Catholic faith for centuries.
= = =
And a mainstay of quite a significant revenue source, as well. Kinda makes it PROFITable to keep creating saints out of thin air and cultivating ‘adorations,’ etc to them . . . kind of equal to giving all the ‘faithful’ [faithful to the political powermongering magicsterical] . . . . equal to giving to each of the faithful their own favorite little ‘god.’
Whoever thought that revenue stream up was quite clever. Probably not overly Christian but quite clever.
Any ideas on which Saint I should enlist to pray for my Yale physicist brother who has begin to show interest in that Neo-pagan gutter scraper WreckHeart Troll (Eckhardt Tolle)? Would St. Monica be a good choice? Best wishes for your Goddaughter.
The “Graven Image” critics don’t like to be reminded of the difference between idols and carvings:
Exodus 25:10-22
“You shall make an ark of acacia wood, two and a half cubits long, one and a half cubits wide, and one and a half cubits high. Plate it inside and out with pure gold around the top of it. Cast four gold rings and fasten them on the four supports of the ark, two rings on the one side and two on the opposite side. Then make poles of acacia wood and plate them with gold. These poles you are to put through the rings on the sides of the ark, for carrying it; they must remain in the rings of the ark and never be withdrawn. In the ark you are to put the commandments which I will give you.”
“You shall then make a propitiatory of pure gold, two cubits and a half ling, on one and a half cubits wide. Make two cherubim of beaten gold for the two ends of the propitiatory, fastening them so that one cherub springs direct from each end. The cherubim shall have their wings spread out above, covering the propitiatory with them; they shall be turned toward each other, but with their faces looking toward the propitiatory. This propitiatory you shall then place on top of the ark. In the ark itself you are to put the commandments, I will tell you all the commands that I wish you to give the Israelites.”
....and on to the instructions for the table and the lampstand.
“And a mainstay of quite a significant revenue source, as well. Kinda makes it PROFITable to keep creating saints out of thin air and cultivating ‘adorations,’ etc to them . . . kind of equal to giving all the ‘faithful’ [faithful to the political powermongering magicsterical] . . . . equal to giving to each of the faithful their own favorite little ‘god.’
Whoever thought that revenue stream up was quite clever. Probably not overly Christian but quite clever.”
This old canard is completely uncalled for, and your willingness to repeat it is borne of ignorance and unwillingness to learn the truth.
Saints are not created out of thin air. Saints are created by the grace of God; the Church’s only part in the process is to exhaustively research the life of the putative saint, in order to verify the life of holiness and the miracles attributed to him or her. In fact, the term “Devil’s Advocate” comes from those whose job it is to disprove the case for sainthood. When the person is canonized, the Church is saying. “We are certain that this person was a holy man (or woman) who was specially touched by God, and who now resides with Him in Heaven.”
As for saints being a money-making proposition, tell me how this works. Really. I can say a Novena to Saint Jude or Saint Francis Xavier from my own home - how does that generate money for the Church?
So, please, draw on your vast knowledge of the finances of the Catholic Church, and tell me how large this “quite significant revenue source” is, and how it is generated.
Have you been to the Vatican and seen all the shops selling plastic and metal St this and St that?
I have.
Yes, out of thin air. Sure the folks lived. Some, even most may have been saints in the sense of Christians saved by Christ’s blood.
However, the caricature of a jr god that the RC magicsterical turns them into is out of thin air—certainly nothing Biblical. Actually quite hostile to Biblical standards, principles and commandments.
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