Is it sacreligious to get a tattoo of a Cross?

4-28-08 | me

[chuckles]

....."God has a "law" against tattoos?".....

Yes.

[SF Republican]

‘You shall not eat anything with the blood The same chapter in Leviticus indicates we should not eat meat, are you saying everyone that eats meat is a sinner and should pray to the Lord for forgiveness?

[chuckles]

No, you are reading the verse wrong on purpose. It is obvious you can eat meat because the dietary rules include meats. The drinking of blood, partaking of blood, or eating with the blood, depending on your Bible translation,( stay away from the more modern translations), is referring to pagan rituals of drinking raw animal blood, aka Africa type ceremonies. The pagan religions of the time, and some today, mimic other religions blood sacrifices. It is designed to give validity to what you are saying in your question. If Jews have blood sacrifice, why can't I practice voodoo and be OK? The blood part of Jewish ceremonies was to indicate the sacrifice Jesus made on the cross. The blood is sprinkled, spread, painted on, dipped, ect, but NEVER drank.

Go chop a chicken head off and pour the blood in a cup and drink it and see if God is happy. That is what the practice of Santeria is in the Caribbean. A mixture of Catholicism and voodoo.

Of course, if you are a JW, then the verse is supposed to mean no transfusions. That would entail a new thread and a bunch of name calling, so we will just leave that here. If you do a FR search, the JW version has been discussed ad neausem. If "SF" stands for San Francisco, I guess you could be a vegan and figure God doesn't want you to eat meat. The key to reading most of the Bible is figure who wrote it and who it was written to. Learn more about the Orthodox Jews and their laws and culture and the Bible will come alive with meaning. Jesus was a Jew, His church started with the Jews, He came to redeem the Jews first, then the gentiles. If you are Christian, you have been "adopted" or "grafted in" to the Jews. Remember the controversy when Ann Coulter talked about "perfected Jews". She was quoting the Bible verbatim, but most people thought it was over the top verbiage. Trying to read western values and customs into the Bible is usually a mistake. A real eye opener is see if you can invite a Messianic Jew( Jews for Jesus)( a "perfected Jew), to your church for a talk. You will receive a years worth of instruction in one morning.

[SF Republican]

No, you are reading the verse wrong on purpose You sure are knowledgeable about what is in my heart. How is it that if one reads of blood that has to do with "pagan rituals of the time" but two verses later one reads of tattoos that has to do with modern times?

[Mrs. Don-o]

"Christianity is the only religion that uses the last 1/4 of its sacred text to nullify the front 3/4."

Not so. The Hebrew Scriptures are the Word of God. Jesus is the Word of God in the flesh. He did not come to abolish the Law, but to perfect it. Saying that Jesus "nullified" the Old Testament is an old, old error from the days of Marcion, who was excommunicated from trhe Catholic Church in around 144 A.D.

[chuckles]

You aren't seeking knowledge, you want to argue. You are arguing with the wrong person. Your arguments are with God's Word.

We have pagan rituals today as well as in the past. Nothing is new under the sun. The same Satanic rituals that were happening back then are happening today. Just go to almost any horror movie today for a demonstration. Go find someone in your church with teaching ability and ask them these questions. Arguing with me on FR isn't going to change your heart.

On almost every discussion on FR, when someone quotes Scripture, someone else will say they don't want to be preached to. Well, stop going to church, I guess. Reading and hearing the Word is where conviction comes from. You obviously are frightened you may be wrong and just want to argue with God. Arguing with me does nothing. No one here, including me is trying to change anything. I'm just stating the obvious. If you want a tattoo, great, go show it to your fellow church members and about 40%-50%, will probably quote you the same Scriptures discussed here. The others haven't studied the Bible. It isn't unusual( unfortunately) to find people of influence, people that teach, people that even preach, that have no background in Scripture. I've met many Sunday school teachers that haven't read the whole Bible, and some even admit they don't believe half of it. That is why so many Christians fall away. They are starving and there isn't enough to feed them. Many deacons are promoted because they tithe the 10%, but have no clue what their job is. Christianity is suffering today because the churches put up with lukewarmness, ignorance, and apathy. If I was apathetic, I would just ignore the tattoo verse and say, "Go for it". What permanent harm can it possibly do? I'm just saying what God has said about it. You have free will to accept it or deny it.

If nothing else, our discussion got you into God's Word to read about the forbidding of partaking in blood. Reading His Word is always a good thing, and questioning a poster on FR is always a thing to check out to make up your own mind. If you are "born again" you now have the Holy Spirit that gives you discernment. The Spirit will teach you. If you don't have the Spirit, then you will fall for lies and be sure you are right. That is the human condition. None of us here are lemmings, or we shouldn't be. That is how people believe the verse is actually in the Bible that says "God helps those that help themselves". They've never questioned it, someone told them it's there and they have never read the Bible. If they had read it, they would know God helps those that can't. You will have people here tell you that "Money is the root of all evil." When you actually look it up and study the verse, it says the LOVE of money is the root of ALL KINDS of evil. What that means is the poor guy in the trailer park could be in as much trouble as the rich guy that owns a yacht. They just want to believe it's the rich guy and somehow the poor guy is exempt by God to having evil thoughts. The Bible is a LIFETIME study. Don't think a quick run through will get you up there with the Apostles. All of us, need more Bible education. But it must come from someone qualified to give an answer for your questions. The beauty off the Bible is that one verse proves another. Anyone, including Satan and demons can take a verse out of context. If you read Genesis, That is what Satan did in the Garden to Eve. He twisted what God said, to make Eve believe God meant something else. He did the same to Jesus in the wilderness. Jesus wrote it, so He knew Satan was wrong and trying to trick Him.

All I would have to do is tell the writer of the thread is God doesn't care, and would be pleased if he got the tattoo of the cross. But that wouldn't be "loving" him. It is easier to say homosexuality is OK because some guy you know is gay and you think he is a good guy. You might as well tell him murder is OK. Lying to someone isn't an act of love. The Word of God is confrontational to a fallen creature. When you are born again, the Bible is beautiful to you and you dwell on it and ponder it's wisdom every day. Me quoting Scripture shouldn't be confrontational to you unless you are still in rebellion to God. I have nothing to do with it.

[safisoft]

Not so. The Hebrew Scriptures are the Word of God. Jesus is the Word of God in the flesh. He did not come to abolish the Law, but to perfect it. Saying that Jesus "nullified" the Old Testament is an old, old error from the days of Marcion, who was excommunicated from trhe Catholic Church in around 144 A.D.

Agreed. Too bad Marcion's theology of "bait and switch" (whereby the Almighty created an unachievable standard and then with inevitable failure offers "grace") has become the standard dogma of most Christians.

I have real difficulty in the machinations that some folks must go through to justify their theology. They have to EXPLAIN Matthew 5:17-19. They have to EXPLAIN Psalms 119. They have to EXPLAIN Hebrews 11.

If it takes a theologian to explain a system... you have the wrong system, eh?

[SF Republican]

No my argument is not with God, it is with your interpretations of His word and my heart.

[wtc911]

It sounds like you are arguing with a Moonie at the airport. Forget it. This place is full of those to whom God has spoken and who therefore are much better informed of His will and intent than you or I could ever be.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Too bad Marcion's theology of "bait and switch" (whereby the Almighty created an unachievable standard and then with inevitable failure offers "grace") has become the standard dogma of most Christians.

Most Christians? (Scratches head.) "Bait and switch" strikes me as some odd sectarian interpretation. It's not a doctrine of the Catholics or the Orthodox, as far as I know, and together they comprise "most Christians."

[safisoft]

Actually, Christian depends on the temporary nature of a vast majority of the law. There are various mechanisms to handle it from Supercessionism to Dispensationalism. The bottom line, whole portions of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy are religated to the dustbin, having no "application" for Christians. For instance, Leviticus 11 which you brought up. No eating blood - how about no eating pig, shellfish, etc.?

In this particular instance, the "bait and switch" comes in Acts 10-11, with further reference to Mark 7, where most Christian dogma ERASES the very commandments of Leviticus 11 as if they did not exist. The very idea that the Almighty issues an eternal command and later at a whim recinds it for "theological" reasons is the reason for my "bait and switch" comment. As you must note, I hold that all of the Word of G-d is both operable, and profitable and that no part - NO PART - has become "fufilled" (where the word "fulfilled" in modern Christian venacular means ABOLISHED, NO LONGER FUNCTIONING). Pleroo from Matthew 5:17 does not mean "fulfilled" it means "fully operable."

[jwalsh07]

No more so than rounding off the hair on your temples or marring the edges of your beard.

[jwalsh07]

No more so than rounding off the hair on your temples or marring the edges of your beard.

[jwalsh07]

Ask Chuckles if he rounds off his hair or mars the edge of his beard.

[TASMANIANRED]

Depends on you intention.

If you just think it's a cool image it is sacrilegious.

If it is a testament to your faith it is not.

[uglybiker]

I just find them ugly and think it is a fad that will pass and leave a lot of people asking "What was I thinking?".

Since tatoos predate recorded history, I'd say it's a little more than a fad.

But I can see where you're coming from.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Well, you've touched on some topics I know almost nothing about (Supercessionism, Dispensationalism, and other competing Protestant theological approaches.) And to be honest, I have little interest in them.

I try to keep these teachings close to my heart:

(Matthew 22:34-40) Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

And this:

(Romans 13:8) Owe no man anything but to love one another, for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the whole law.

[onedoug]

...so this prohibition doesn't apply.

It strikes me as odd that many Christians feel they can pick-and-choose OT theology. The Temple is gone (however temporarily), so one needn't obsess as to its practices (at least for today). Yet Jesus was a Jew who himself held to The Law and exhorted believers to do the same as when he taught us to pray as Jews to "Our Father..." Are the Ten Commandments thus invalid as well? If not, why not?

[pig mint]

this is all pretty fascinating to me. there are references to coptic christians here, and i took an art class from one. he recieved his first tattoo, a cross on his wrist, when he was 5. at 43, he had me touch it up, and i was honored to do so. the verse in lev referring to tattoos didn't originally say “tattoo” as the word wasn't in existense till much later. it was about a pagan ritual, a way of praying for the dead. and no, we're not bound to jewish law.
the question is, will it offend your parents, your “brother” etc. if so, respect them. if not, honor God as the spirit moves you.

[pig mint]

AMEN SISTER!!!