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What old-guard feminists get wrong about Catholics
Dallas News ^ | April 27, 2008 | Kathryn Jean Lopez

Posted on 04/28/2008 6:33:10 AM PDT by NYer

In the run-up to Pope Benedict XVI's visit to the United States, there was a tremendous display of unseriousness at the National Press Club, followed by a sacrilege at a nearby Washington, D.C., church.

A misguided group called the Women's Ordination Conference held a protest – a press conference and an all-woman "Mass" at a local Methodist church. The group, as the name suggests, wants to see "the ordination of women as priests, deacons and bishops." Sadly, the group doesn't understand women or the Catholic Church.

In a prepared statement, WOC executive director Aisha Taylor declared:

"The failure to ordain women is a blatant manifestation of sexism in the church that has wider repercussions in the world.

"In the three years of his papacy, Pope Benedict XVI has made a few encouraging statements about women, but he has done nothing that suggests willingness to open the discussion on women's ordination. That's why for his 81st birthday, we are offering the pope a present: the gift of women, their leadership, talents, experiences and unique perspectives."

The group trailed the popemobile to papal events with a billboard truck that asked: "Pope Benedict, How long must women wait for equality? Ordain Catholic Women."

As they are stuck on their version of "equality," the fundamental problem with the group and its message is that whatever Benedict says or does will not be enough for them. They are not open to listening, but to dictating an unworkable agenda. If they were open to it, they would hear and see the Roman Catholic Church's embrace and celebration of women. Women will not be priests, but they will always be an essential part of the Church.

(Excerpt) Read more at dallasnews.com ...


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: catholic; catholics; feminists; papalvisit; womenpriests; wymynpryysts
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To: eastsider

Nope, that’s still nonsensical rationalization. You attach a lot more significance to Jesus’ genitalia than I do, though, so I think we’re at an impasse.

Seriously, I’m late now. You have my permission to laugh behind my back or speculate about how best to prove I’m a witch when I’m gone. :)


161 posted on 04/28/2008 11:32:14 AM PDT by TraditionalistMommy
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To: workerbee

I didn’t cry, just laughed and rolled my eyes.

This is too much fun, that’s the problem.


162 posted on 04/28/2008 11:33:05 AM PDT by TraditionalistMommy
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To: TraditionalistMommy

Since we have such a low birthrate, are we long past the time when men should start bearing children? It makes sense doesn’t it?


163 posted on 04/28/2008 11:33:16 AM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: TraditionalistMommy

I think not since you refuse to answer the question. I pointed to a link which described how only 30% of American Catholics actually believe in it. Pretty low number.

The church unambigiously teaches the Truth of the Real Presence, yet that Truth is either or ignored by a large majority of AmCaths. I’ve pointed out over and over that popular opinion does not equal Truth.

Most AmCaths believe Confession is unneeded and do not bother to receive the Sacrament. Heck, most parishes only offer it weekly for about 45 minutes. The current and former Pope received that Sacrament weekly and stressed over and over how important it is for a fully Christian life.

Yet you seem to have so much faith in American popular opinion and none for the Church.


164 posted on 04/28/2008 11:33:33 AM PDT by jjm2111 (Are we going to have a Daily Dose of McCain?)
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To: TraditionalistMommy

It’s because it’s inaccurate. “Fundamentalist” means that, like “fundamentalist” Muslims or “fundamentalist” Protestants, such Catholics only rely on certain texts without question. That certainly isn’t the case.


165 posted on 04/28/2008 11:34:31 AM PDT by Pyro7480 ("If the angels could be jealous of men, they would be so for one reason: Holy Communion." -M. Kolbe)
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To: TraditionalistMommy

Posts #10 and #64. Did you respond to these points?


166 posted on 04/28/2008 11:36:09 AM PDT by workerbee (Ladies do not start fights, but they can finish them.)
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To: TraditionalistMommy
You attach a lot more significance to Jesus’ genitalia than I do ...
There's no need to be irreverent.

It's not the significance that I attach to Jesus' sex that we're dealing with here, but the significance that Jesus attached to it. He is, after all, the one who chose it.

167 posted on 04/28/2008 11:38:48 AM PDT by eastsider
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To: TraditionalistMommy

yeah, it’s like one of those good old fashioned “You people worship Mary” threads.


168 posted on 04/28/2008 11:40:04 AM PDT by ichabod1 (I know the diff between right and wrong. Right: What I Am. Wrong: What You Are)
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To: TraditionalistMommy

You’re spinning — using one part of my example and ignoring the other. I know Rod Steiger was not a priest, but I couldn’t think of the name of the one he portrayed so convincingly, and that’s why I added Fr. Corapi. I like Priests who are pugs. I like priests who will kick anyone’s butt who dares say they wear skirts.


169 posted on 04/28/2008 11:48:59 AM PDT by ichabod1 (I know the diff between right and wrong. Right: What I Am. Wrong: What You Are)
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To: All; TraditionalistMommy

I really doubt we will see the words, “Well, maybe I’m wrong.” from TradionalistMommy. As long as she believes that men who are against female ordination are only doing it to “hold women down”, no amount of logic, reasons, Church papers, etc., will change her mind.

It’s like the pro aborts who argue that men can’t be anti-abortion because “it isn’t their body and they’re only thinking that way to hold women down”. Or the favorite, “you are only against choice because you want women barefoot and pregnant and ironing your laundry” charge. You can’t argue that rationally.

I’m sorry it’s this way, but it is what it is.


170 posted on 04/28/2008 11:49:16 AM PDT by jjm2111 (Are we going to have a Daily Dose of McCain?)
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To: GCC Catholic

It’s because those who profess to worldly orders eventually decide they’d rather be in the world themselves, and the vows go by the wayside.


171 posted on 04/28/2008 11:50:21 AM PDT by ichabod1 (I know the diff between right and wrong. Right: What I Am. Wrong: What You Are)
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To: ichabod1
"I think that’s what that passage means, they shouldn’t read, and they shouldn’t be altar boys, and they shouldn’t nag their men."

No, what it actually means is that women shouldn't act like the pagan priestesses of the day did, screaming, wailing, and making an "unhholy spectacle" of themselves (this from my Bible study class leader, an elderly gentleman of great scholarship, who converted to Catholicism back in the days of the Latin Mass, who studied Latin to understand the mass, and then Hebrew and Greek to study God's Word).

Serving as lectors is perfectly permissible.

172 posted on 04/28/2008 12:03:24 PM PDT by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel-NRA)
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To: TraditionalistMommy
You have to question what they mean by American Catholics
173 posted on 04/28/2008 12:07:49 PM PDT by ichabod1 (I know the diff between right and wrong. Right: What I Am. Wrong: What You Are)
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To: TraditionalistMommy
Arguing with non-Catholics sometimes amuses me.

Sometimes it gives me an opportunity to get in a plug for the truth.

So, for that: Thanks!

174 posted on 04/28/2008 12:08:21 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: TraditionalistMommy

Because the denominations that have tried it have literally gone to hell in a bucket. That’s the main reason. Again, it’s like socialized medicine — it sounds good, has never worked when tried, learn the lesson.


175 posted on 04/28/2008 12:10:13 PM PDT by ichabod1 (I know the diff between right and wrong. Right: What I Am. Wrong: What You Are)
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To: TraditionalistMommy
“Persona Christi Capitis
Person of Christ the Head”
Pope John Paul II

“Only by having a deep knowledge of the Person and work of Jesus Christ is the priest able to understand his own identity. John Paul says, “the priest finds the full truth of his identity in being a derivation, a specific participation in and continuation of Christ himself, the one high priest of the new and eternal covenant. The priest is a living and transparent image of Christ the priest…”

“…A priest is set between God and man. Now he needs someone between himself and God, who of himself cannot approach to God; and such a one is subject to the priesthood by sharing in the effect thereof. But this cannot be said of Christ; for the Apostle says (Heb. vii. 25): Coming of Himself to God, always living to make intercession for us…And therefore it is not fitting for Christ to be the recipient of the effect of His priesthood, but rather to communicate it to others. For the influence of the first agent in every genus is such that it receives nothing in that genus: thus the sun gives but does not receive light…Now Christ is the fountain-head of the entire priesthood: for the priest of the Old Law was a figure of Him; while the priest of the New Law works in his person, according to 2 Cor. ii. 10: For what I have pardoned, if I have pardoned anything, for your sakes have I done in the person of Christ.”

And as Father Levis concludes:

“In conclusion the following written by Fr. Robert J. Levis, of Erie, PA on 09-10-2003:

Celibacy will remain a characteristic of the Western Priesthood for the following reasons: 1. The priest is considered a groom, like Christ the Groom, married to the whole Church. This is an ancient patriarchal notion and a good one. This Christian union is monogamous, one husband with one wife. The priest's wife is his people whom he serves without counting the effort.

2. The vocation of the priest is to stand in the person of Christ who was celibacy throughout his whole life.

3. The primary purpose of marriage is the rearing and training of children, an enormous task. An essential duty of the priest is to administer the Sacraments most especially the Holy Eucharist, a most solemn duty which requires a detached life, much solitary prayer, and training for homiletic work.

4. The priest is considered the “sexless one”, the man to whom all, men and women, may come in complete freedom and openness with their counseling problems. Any woman can see the priest who is not some woman's husband, which is a freedom for her and an advantage for the independent priest.

5. Imagine the costs of providing for a priest and his non-conceptive family, a real practical consideration in these times. God bless.

—Fr. Bob Levis”

If you have a family, how many collections would you need to put food in the table and gas in your vehicle?

176 posted on 04/28/2008 12:13:21 PM PDT by franky1
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To: TraditionalistMommy
The will of the Lord? If Christ were preaching today, you really think he would advocate treating women, or anyone, as second class citizens?

It's advisable not to question the will of the Lord. He chose 12 men! Do you think you can do better than Jesus Christ?

177 posted on 04/28/2008 12:28:53 PM PDT by notaliberal (Christ Our Hope!)
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To: TraditionalistMommy
The Catholic Church will eventually adapt, and there will be female priests, just as there are female altar servers, female eucharistic ministers, etc. People in your camp will whine and grumble as you always have. The precedent is clear, and you’re right, the Church won’t wither and blow away. It will adapt in order to survive, as it’s always done.<'p>

You haven't been listening to Pope Benedict lately, have you? Doctrine doesn't change.

178 posted on 04/28/2008 12:32:51 PM PDT by notaliberal (Christ Our Hope!)
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To: TraditionalistMommy

Please take a glimpse at “Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, John Paul II, 22 May 1994 - Apostolic Letter” This settled the matter as far as the teaching of the Church. If you continue to deny the conclusion that the Church has no right and will never have a right to ordain women you are simply not Catholic.

You are in rebellion and your heart will continue to harden. The answer if readily available and that is repentence. If you can not repent than you need to leave the Church and shop around for one that suits your own views. I think there are some empty pews in 815 churches. Give them a holler.


179 posted on 04/28/2008 12:39:03 PM PDT by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: TraditionalistMommy

So who the hell is making you stay in this backwater, dying institution who’s very doctrine forces women into subservient roles? Gee I think you’d be pounding towards the exit to leave this anachrostic example of entrenched misogyny. And we haven’t even discussed the artificial birth control issue- talk about sneering at the empowerment of wimmin.


180 posted on 04/28/2008 12:44:01 PM PDT by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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