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To: Petronski
Sola Scriptura is not what (and never was) what most Catholics and Protestants think it means.

The Reformation was quite necessary, in its day. I'm a great fan of the tradition and liturgy of the Church, and I like this Pope, but there will never be any real ecumenism until the Catholic Church agrees that its doctrines are open to question and debate. Every ecumenical effort on the part of the Church always seems end up with, "how can we get you all to come back to us and agree with everything we teach."

The Church never approaches ecumenism on equal footing, prepared to hear out Protestant issues - on theological and doctrinal issues.

But I hold out no real hope, because the Church has backed itself into a corner. It cannot throw out any of its ex-cathedra doctrine, and it cannot change or throw out any of its tradition without losing its mythical infallibility. And therefore complete inventions, like the "assumption" of Mary, can not be revisited, examined, changed, or thrown out. To do so, by the Church, would be a de-facto admission of fallibility.

And though I love so much about the Catholic Church, this Protestant will never agree to any Marian doctrines such as "immaculate conception", "assumption", etc, or that I should pray to the souls of dead human beings who are now alive with the Lord. For most Protestants, anything to do with Marianism is right out, anathema. So unless the Church is willing to agree that Marianism is a private matter and nothing within it is required for a believer who joins the Church, then ecumenism is a wasted effort.

Sola Scriptura meant something, too, and it's too bad so many Catholics and Protestants have forgotten what Luther originally said.

10 posted on 04/21/2008 7:00:03 AM PDT by Boagenes (I'm your huckleberry, that's just my game.)
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To: Boagenes
The Church never approaches ecumenism on equal footing, prepared to hear out Protestant issues - on theological and doctrinal issues.

Which Protestant issues?

Methodist? Presbyterian? Anglican? Baptist?

Who actually speaks for Protestants?

Maybe you should sort out your own issues, come to some consensus and then get back to us. Aside from an opposition to Catholicism, there isn't much agreement in an ever diverging non-Catholic" world.

But I hold out no real hope, because the Church has backed itself into a corner. It cannot throw out any of its ex-cathedra doctrine, and it cannot change or throw out any of its tradition without losing its mythical infallibility. And therefore complete inventions, like the "assumption" of Mary, can not be revisited, examined, changed, or thrown out. To do so, by the Church, would be a de-facto admission of fallibility.

I can't imagine what it must be like to belong to a "church" which doesn't believe that it possesses the whole truth and nothing but the truth. What is it like to belong to a Church that is not fully convicted that some of it's teachings are not falsehood? That leads naturally to all sorts of debate, confusion and in the end, disunity.

What should be so shocking about a body of believers who believe that in matters of faith and Christian teaching that it is infallibly guided by the Holy Spirit? That God is one, truth is one and the Church is one.

Anything less is just an apology for Christianity, isn't it?

Did Jesus commission the Apostles and those who follow them to go out to the whole world and teach baloney?

A Church that believes that Jesus Christ is infallible and that the Church, His Mystical Body is likewise.

What a shocker!

15 posted on 04/21/2008 8:08:10 AM PDT by marshmallow
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To: Boagenes
For most Protestants, anything to do with Marianism is right out, anathema.

I can understand the Protestant position concerning "sola scriptura," but I don't understand this. Doctrine such as the assumption aside, honoring Mary adores and worships Chist. In His humanity, since her "yes" was the God-planned essential cooperation necessary for the overshadowing of the Holy Spirit upon her in the creation of Christ's humanity. In His Divinity, since Christ was her Creator and Redeemer.

I don't see how Jesus could be pleased by anathema towards honoring His Mother. I don't see how the Holy Spirit could be pleased by the dismissal of the Biblical prophecy that He spoke through the words of Mary when she said, "All generations shall call me blessed."

All worthiness of honor that Mary possesses is derived from Christ by virtue of her being His mother. Without Him, she (like us) would cease to exist. With all due respect, what this issue boils down to is that Protestantism must argue with Christ, Himself, in regards to His Mother, and logically speaking, there's no getting around that fact.

103 posted on 04/21/2008 9:52:01 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall
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