Poep John Paul II Kissing The Koran

www.focusonjerusalem.com ^ | 2002 | Darrell G, Young

[Beloved Levinite]

The Pope Kissing the Koran

Below is a photo (see link below) of the Pope at the end of an audience with Patriarch Raphael I of Iraq, where the Pope "bowed" to the Muslim holy book, The Koran, presented to him by the delegation, and kissed it. Did the Pope, who in fact is the supposed "infallible" voice of the Roman Catholic Church not remember what The Koran has to say about Jesus and the nature of God? Did he not know how The Koran demotes Jesus the Messiah to "only a messenger of Allah" status?

"O people of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which he conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit [sic.] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers and say not 'Three' - Cease! (it is better for you! - Allah is only one God. Far is it removed from His transcendent majesty that He should have a son...The Messiah will never scorn to be a slave unto Allah."

Of Jesus Christ, The Koran also states:

"And when the son of Mary is quoted as an example, behold! The folk laugh out, and say: Are our gods better, or is he? They raise not the objection save for argument. Nay! but they are a contentious folk. He is nothing but a slave on whom we bestowed favor, and we made him a pattern for the Children of Israel. And had we willed it we would have set among you angels to be viceroys in the earth".

Regarding Christ's death upon the Cross, The Koran says:

"That they rejected Faith; That they uttered against Mary a grave false charge; That they said (in boast): We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, The Messenger of Allah. But they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjunction to follow, for of a surety they killed him not. ... And on the Day of Judgment He (Jesus) will be a witness against them (Christians)." (Koran, 4:156-159)

The Koran even has Jesus Himself saying:

"Jesus son of Mary said: O Children of Israel! Lo! I am the messenger of Allah unto you, confirming that which was (revealed) before me in the Torah, and bringing good tidings of a messenger who cometh after me, whose name is the Praised One." The Pope was picked as "the Man of the Century" by various religious leaders. SOURCE: Fides (Rome) news Interview with Patriarch of Babylon!

Written by: Darrell G. Young Copyright©2002

Link to photo: http://focusonjerusalem.com/popekissingkoran.html

[Revelation 911]

I’ll be home at eleven, mom

[Beloved Levinite]

Well, NYer. Thank you again, for that thoguhtful post!

First, judging from you post, it seems you think I am Jewish, from my username. Actually, I am a die hard Mark Levin fan & he’s always praising his “beloved audience, hence “Beloved Levinite.” Actually, I was baptized a Catholic & my family are all Catholics. However, (long story) I went to a Lutheran grammar school & was confirmed Lutheran along with all my friends. I was happy to have been steeped in both “points of view.” I ended up with the viewpoint that the Bible is the only inspired Word of God & I personally would never adhere to any doctrine not found in the Bible. I never found the point of having to pray to Mary & the saints, when I learned differently in the Bible. Of course I know Catholics are opposed to that view & I am not here to condemn Catholics. But it would make me happy to see the Pope take the bolder step in bringing the *salvation message* - the actual offer of following & accepting Christ to all the world religions, rather than just the message of “the love & peace of Christ.”

I don’t know what you feel about Rev. Billy Graham. But at the end of all his sermons, he asks all who desire, to come forward & accept Christ into their heart as their personal Saviour, along with His gift of Eternal Life. The Pope’s message to the nations is wonderful, “the peace & love of Christ,” but does he go far enough?

[Beloved Levinite]

Thank you, PetroniusMaximus. I needed that!;)

God Bless.

[mad_as_he$$]

Isn’t this guy on the fast track to sainthood?

[narses]

Actually, I was baptized a Catholic...I never found the point of having to pray to Mary & the saints, when I learned differently in the Bible.

Sadly you never received anything close to a Catholic education. Sad, very sad.+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.

[Pyro7480]

Do you have any response to post #44 Levinite?

[DieHard the Hunter]

> Did the Pope, who in fact is the supposed "infallible" voice of the Roman Catholic Church not remember what The Koran has to say about Jesus and the nature of God?

Mate, I am not a Catholic, but even I know this much:

The Pope is not "Infallable" and has not ever claimed to be. In the mid-1800s one of the Popes pronounced that the Pope was Infallable ex-Cathedra -- that is to say, when it comes to making pronouncements on behalf of the Roman Catholic Church, the Pope does not make mistakes. His authority is absolute in this respect. Sensibly enough.

That is a very long way away from being Infallable as us English-speakers understand it. To understand Latin it is necessary to read the whole phrase, rather than picking out a single word as you have done -- "infallible" -- and latch onto that.

No Pope would be so dumb as to say he never makes a mistake. I could kick his ass in a game of chess or poker or in a fist-fight almost for sure. He will have made at least one "mistake" that would have led him to lose, and proven himself "fallible": no Pope -- even if he was high on Dope -- would be stupid enough to expose himself to so silly a trap as that! What do you think, seriously? That any idiot can rise thru the ranks of the Catholic Church to become Pope? Crikey, on that basis you might also think GWB is the idiot that the MSM paints him to be. Here's a clue: Law degrees from two ivy league universities. Fighter Pilot. Air Force Officer. Dumbasses don't get to do these things. As with the POTUS, so with the Pope.

So let's pretend the photo is actually of Karol Wojtyla Pope John Paul II kissing the Koran. And let's pretend that the Arab-looking dude in the photo is Osama bin Laden -- just to make it interesting.

At the very most, the Holy Father is showing an elaborate courtesy to a sinner, and to a sick book that the congregation of sinners known as Muslims view to be special. At very most. Most probably as an act of forgiveness. Or perhaps good manners.

Was this a mistake? Dunno. But it wasn't a breach of Papal "Infallibility".

Was the Pope making a pronouncement on behalf of Catholics? No -- and unless you can show me a Papal Bull that says "Pope John Paul II acknowledges Islam as the Only True Holy Faith and has sealed this with a kiss, with instruction for all Catholics to do the same" then the Pope has not made an pronouncement "ex Cathedra". And so the Papal "Infallibility" in the Latin sense of the word remains intact.

Tempest in a teacup.

Sheesh! I'm not even a Catholic and I know that!

[LordBridey]

but do you believe the Pope’s attempt at uniting Christianity & Islam (and others) is a good thing?

I do. Traditional faiths share common interests. The Vatican and muslims have already been uniting to defeat world organizations' attempts to propagate abortion and contraception. It is also important to the Vatican that Muslim autocracies open up their countries to Christian worship, which is also being accomplished. Xenophobia and demonization aren't going to help achieve those goals.

I'm of the mind, that if the pope kissed the Koran,( and I am stunned that something I had always believed as fact is being called into question ), then instead of painting the pope as some kind of covert al-quaida operative or ecumenical wussie, we should instead understand what the Church teaches about Islam. What it doesn't do is hunt and peck for the most hostile and offensive passages. The catechism teaches that the Muslims " profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day." Perhaps that is the aspect that he was kissing.

But you are right to assume that the pope probably knew a lot about Islam. He probably did study it as a student, getting perhaps a thumbnail sketch in a comparative religion class. But as pope, he probably gained a much broader perspective. He certainly met a lot of Muslims, and traveled to Muslim countries, communicated with bishops and priests that lived in Muslim countries. His knowlege of Islam, his understanding of Islamic cultures, his familiarity with how Muslims actually practice their faith, I would venture to say, was far more extensive than mine, and maybe even yours. I think it is reasonable to defer to his judgement. I can understand the cause for scandal given the current political climate and a few cut and pasted passages, but I have never believed this incident was as shocking as some would like it to make it out to be. Those that do, generally hav some kind of agenda. What is yours?

[DieHard the Hunter]

> Wonderful! You’ve exposed me as a newbie! Now what?

Continue along the disrespectful lines that your posts to date indicate, and just possibly you will be introduced to the ZOT.

Usually best to Lurk for a while on this Forum, mate. Learn the flavor of the site, do a few trial responses to threads already up. Gauge feedback, get to “know” a few people with similar interests to you. Understand that this is a Conservative Forum and that devout Catholics are about as Conservative as it gets in this world — so probably not a good idea to attack one of their past Holy Fathers and a truly great World Leader in a maiden thread that you want to post up...

Just a suggestion. I’d happily attend your ZOT but maybe you meant well. I’ll take that risk for the moment.

[kevinw]

The doctrine of papal infallibility is an untruth. Only God is infallible. As for John Paul II’s kissing of the Koran, it was poor judgment. Since he made an error, he couldn’t be infallible. To say that he was is to put Him on the same level as God. That would be blasphemy.

[informavoracious]

NEWSFLASH........Pope John Paul II is dead. If he did wrong, he is amswering for it. Say a prayer for the man to RIP, willya? Stop Catholic-baiting with rehashed stories.

[kevinw]

Brotherly affection for Muslims? Give me a break. I love them, and want to see them come to know and worship the true God (Jehovah), but they are not my spiritual brothers and sisters. They don’t believe in the Trinity; Christ’s deity; Jesus’ death, burial, and resurrection; or in salvation by grace through faith. Their idea of salvation is works-based. They teach that Jesus didn’t die. They don’t believe that He is the Son of God. Their God (Allah) is a pagan god who was worshiped by the Arabs before Islam started.

[kevinw]

He is not infallible at all. Only God is. To say that the pope is infallible on the throne is blasphemy.

[kevinw]

I never found the point of having to pray to Mary and the saints, either, and I still can’t find it, because the Bible doesn’t teach it. Praying to dead people is wrong. It is a pagan practice. We should pray only to God.

[AliVeritas]

Is his death not enough for you?

[Beloved Levinite]

I wasn’t aware before today that this subject has already been addressed. I think it has over 800+ views. And I wasn’t baiting anyone. My family is Catholic, was baptized Catholic, but confirmed Lutheran. I did want to know the Catholic perspective of that photo.

re: praying for the dead. That’s one difference we have that will never be resolved.

God Bless.

[Beloved Levinite]

Pyro,

re: post #44. Yes, I agree that it was a serious error in judgment for PJ2. But, I think it’s a wonderful thing for Pope Benedict to baptize that former Muslim. I hope it happens much more often as we move thru these End Times.

[Dominick]

The book just came off the mimeo machine and everyone loves the smell of fresh mimeos. Its something chemical and blue, and it just smells good.

Can we move on to something more substantive, unless you are saying the Pope was muslim...

[narses]

Praying to dead people is wrong

People in Heaven are dead?

[netmilsmom]

>>NEWSFLASH........Pope John Paul II is dead. If he did wrong, he is amswering for it. Say a prayer for the man to RIP, willya? Stop Catholic-baiting with rehashed stories<<

If we still had the post of the day, I would nominate this post.

And it only took two pages of replies to get to it.

Amen Brother!!! Prayers for JPII