Symbols and Systems: Why Catholics and Protestants Don't See Eye to Eye

Inside Catholic ^ | 3/27/2008 | Rev. Dwight Longenecker

[OpusatFR]

What are you? The moderator?

[OLD REGGIE]

What are you? The moderator?

Nah! Much too lazy for that kind of duty.

What are you? The person who says "my dog would never pee on your door step" while the dog is actually peeing on the doorstep at that moment?

[OpusatFR]

“What are you? The person who says “my dog would never pee on your door step” while the dog is actually peeing on the doorstep at that moment?”

No. I have a much better vocabulary. I prefer the use of standard English rather than crass slang.

[big'ol_freeper]

As they say in the Air Force.... you know you are close to the target when you start taking flack.

Unfortunately, my experience and observations of posts on the FR religious forum causes me to have to stand by my statement.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Whoever this Dr. Greg L. Bahnsen is could be in trouble. I am having my attorneys investigate the possibility of a suit charging him with plagarism and, worse yet, reading my mind. :)

lol. Sadly, you've missed your chance. The Lord called Pastor Bahnsen home in 1995 after Bahnsen underwent his third open heart surgery. He was a terrific writer, teacher, pastor and preacher of the Gospel and a mighty debater of God's word. Many of his debates with atheists and Roman Catholics were taped, and are online.

Here's his bio from Theopedia...

DR. GREGORY BAHNSEN

And here's a wonderful testimony by Ken Gentry to his friend and mentor...

APPOINTED FOR THE DEFENSE OF THE GOSPEL:
The Life and Ministry of Greg L. Bahnsen

And here's a short review of one of his most accessible books, "Always Ready: Directions for Defending the Faith."

[Quix]

Catholics believe Scripture is the inspired word of God and the Holy Spirit is God’s means of instructing men through His word.”

= = =

I gather that your point is that Prottys don’t believe that???

And what is your evidence for such an outrageous assertion/perspective?

[Quix]

"The mere fact of their deep-seeded hatred of the Church, that was established by Jesus Christ, points to a very sick heart and faulty intellect."

A) I don't hate the RC edifice.
B) I certainly don't hate the authentic Mary, Mother of Jesus.

I do hate the snow job satan has achieved with the RC edifice along a number of lines involving:

1. rank, brazen, outrageous idolatry and blasphemy . . . as well as

2. raising political RELIGIOUS POWER MONGERING to an art form and calling it holy.

I'm thoroughly and utterly convinced that such things are from the pit in every group and denomination of any significant age whatsoever and all amongst the worst in the most !!!!TRADITIONAL!!!!, fossilized, calcified, rigid, narrow, spiritually ignorant of such RELIGIOUS organizations--of which the RC edifice is a prime example.

I didn't write THE STANDARD. God did. And against HIS STANDARD, the RC edifice itself indicts, accuses, demonstrates it's own guilt relentlessly, brazenly, wholesale across the planet in a myriad of ways.

It is not hatred to point out where God's standard is 180 degrees from an individual's or a group's persistently demonstrated lived walk, life, existence. On the contrary, there's likely much love in persisting in such courageous efforts.

Some of us don't hate much of anything except satan and his works.

Humans--all of us--are flawed works-in-progress.

Certainly some with some tenacious support of satan's schemes, memes, efforts, perspectives, strategies, deceptions, idolatries, blasphemies . . . can be annoying, frustrating and troublesome to deal with. But hate is not on the able--not for me, anyway.

C) Christ did not establish the RC edifice. There's no reasonable Biblical basis for it and no historical basis for such a conclusion. Rubber Bibles and Rubber histories do not count. Noise to the contrary is mere noise and myopic "IN-GROUP" blindness.

imho, the sickness is siding with satan in behalf of the very things Christ Himself most fiercely railed against.

The sickness is in making of Mary a blasphemous, idolatrous cartoon figure she herself would be furious about if God allows her to know about such travesties at all.

One day every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord of Lords and King of Kings. There will be NO Hail Mary's first; No rushing to Mary's presumed bosom for a quick consultation about whether such is kosher, or not; No looking back wistfully at the statue in the local grotto or alcove or altar.

Those who can wholeheartedly sing

ALL MY PRAISE TO CHRIST ALONE

Will gather at His feet. I'm not sure what He'll do with those double-minded sorts who give 80% of their time, energy and attention to a satanic blasphemous, idolatrous farce labeled in Mary's name. But I wouldn't want to place my bets on His pleasure with them.

[Quix]

The vast majority of Christian churches not associated with the RCC do not have that historic link to the state. It makes for a very different view of the role of the Christian church.

And Praise God for that priceless distinction.

And which perspective is most suited to being deceived and consumed by the satanic globalists? One guess.

[HarleyD]

From my quick read, I think Dr. E might have touched upon what I see as an error in this article. The author states:

For Catholics, this way of understanding the world, God, the cosmos, and everything is rich and multilayered. The Church is not only a symbol of the Body of Christ -- it is the Body of Christ....The Catholic imagination and the Catholic soul are nurtured in a multitude of different sacraments, sacramentals, signs, and symbols. As a result, all physical things are part of God's plan of salvation. ... In contrast, my nephew-in-law Jimbo, as a good Baptist, shares a radically different perspective on the whole shooting match. Jimbo, like every Protestant, has grown up within a basic religious paradigm that is more systematic....He says Protestant theologians, rather than seeing how physical things and human culture connect us to God, emphasize the radical separation between God and the physical world. The Protestant focuses primarily on man's alienation from God, the fact of sin, the need for redemption, and the need for man's response.

While I would agree this may be the way most Protestants see the world today, it only belie their poor teaching. For Protestants everything in the world is corrupted to some extent EXCEPT the word of God. The scriptures are the focal point through which one can fully understand God. There may be room for discussion on the holiness of sacraments such as the Lord's Supper and baptism but that is about it.

Contrast this with the author's assertion of the Catholic view that one can have all sorts of dfferent things and you can readily see the problem. Candles, beads, water, are all corrupt means through understanding God. Signs and symbols are meant to draw people away from God, not to Him. Only His word is given to draw us to Him.

Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, restoring the soul; The testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Psa 19:8 The precepts of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart; The commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
Psa 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring forever; The judgments of the LORD are true; they are righteous altogether.
Psa 19:10 They are more desirable than gold, yes, than much fine gold; Sweeter also than honey and the drippings of the honeycomb.
Psa 19:11 Moreover, by them Your servant is warned; In keeping them there is great reward.
Psa 19:12 Who can discern his errors? Acquit me of hidden faults.

The word of God is perfect, it restores the soul, it makes us wise, it brings us joy, it enlightens us, helps us to fear the Lord, and it helps us to understand the nature of God. No candles or holy water will do such a thing.

[OLD REGGIE]

“What are you? The person who says “my dog would never pee on your door step” while the dog is actually peeing on the doorstep at that moment?”

No. I have a much better vocabulary. I prefer the use of standard English rather than crass slang.

Oh my! I'm impressed with your brilliance and obvious class. Do you make any exceptions to your "upper class" rules? Such as, for instance, a willingness to accept some pecularities of "Southern Culture" without calling them crass?

You do know what a High Horse is don't you?

[OLD REGGIE]

As they say in the Air Force.... you know you are close to the target when you start taking flack.

Unfortunately, my experience and observations of posts on the FR religious forum causes me to have to stand by my statement.

A few observations:

FR is not the universe. In the big picture it is meaningless.

By your own standards you qualify as a "Protestant hater".

I do like your position though. Ecumenism , by your terms, is not possible.

[Zionist Conspirator]

Perhaps this "everything as symbol" explains the understanding of the Bible as spiritual allegory rather than factual history.

Orthodox Judaism has had its own "physical sacraments" for over 3300 years without reducing the Torah to mythology. Hmm.

[OLD REGGIE]

Actually I did think it was, since you pinged me to it. So, if I thought it was, maybe I needed the reminder.

The first person addressed in my response is always the subject. I then include the persons (he) had pinged.

That is, if I don't mess up.

The first thousand years were a disaster for Christendom? Apart from the tragedy of the separation of East and West, whose doctrine has deviated the most from that beginning in the past 500 years?

Of course I didn't say the first thousand years were a disaster for Christendom. I will say it became increasingly so as the power and wealth of the "Church" increased.

Do you think it was always a bed of roses? What happened to the first "heretics"? Were there any "Bad" Popes? Was there increasing corruption in this "Church"?

The first thousand years were a disaster for Christendom? Apart from the tragedy of the separation of East and West, whose doctrine has deviated the most from that beginning in the past 500 years?

None of the early "Christians" would recognize the RCC of today and for that matter, most of the Protestant Churches.

If I gave you a list of pejoratives for Catholic belief that I've seen, I really don't think you could match it.

It's not the list of perjoratives which are meaningful is it? If I damn you with one thousand different adjectives is it any different from damning you with one word?

The various Popes in history have had some loving words for "heretics" haven't they, not to say a thing about the fate of these "heretics".

Ecumenism means different things to different people and I believe it means "under the auspices of the Pope" to the RCC. Unless, of course, you can imagine the Pope being subordinate to a Christian Leader chosen by the "Council of Churches" for, lets say, a five year term.

[OLD REGGIE]

"I could point you to tons and tons of articles and posts *by Catholics*..."

I am thankful you are not among those who "spam" threads by linking to "tons and tons" of articles.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

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