Posted on 03/21/2008 8:04:24 AM PDT by SmithL
Under the vaulted ceilings of St. Margaret Mary's Church in Oakland, a revered tradition once forsaken has gained new life.
About 300 Roman Catholics go there every Sunday to celebrate the traditional Latin Mass, a rite rich in symbolism that has been on the margins of Catholic life for more than four decades.
But over the past year, decrees by Pope Benedict XVI have given the traditional Latin Mass greater official standing in the Catholic Church, opening the door for some churches to go back to it.
Now, at St. Margaret Mary's, grandparents practice the rituals of their childhood. Young couples are being married under a tradition they encountered only recently. People drive from all over the Bay Area - and beyond - to worship there. The priest says an elderly Modesto woman comes from Stanislaus County once a month by taxi.
But the revitalized tradition is drawing controversy. Some question whether the traditional rite is too outdated for a church grappling with the needs of a diverse membership and facing unprecedented challenges, such as an increasingly interreligious world.
Those challenges are underscored this week, which is Holy Week. Today's Good Friday service has been criticized by many Jewish groups, for example, because the Latin liturgy includes a prayer for God to "enlighten" Jews so they will "acknowledge Jesus Christ, the savior of all men."
The Rabbinical Assembly of Conservative Judaism released a resolution saying it was "disturbed and dismayed" by the prayer and that it undermined decades of productive Jewish-Catholic relations.
The Rev. Michael Wiener, who presides over the St. Margaret Mary's service, said it would deny the core of his faith if he didn't say the prayer.
"Is it appropriate today to pray for the Jews? Of course," he said. "It can't harm anybody to pray...
(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...
“Perhaps because they didn’t ask to be prayed for. It’s like a slap in the face by holier than thou Christians.”
Jesus said (Not a bunch of holier than thou Christians) that “NO MAN comes to the Father but by me.”
The Bible is clear that ONLY through Christ does one attain heaven...and it is clear that the ONLY “holy” any man can attain is the holiness of CHRIST in him.
So, they ARE holier than THOU....and secondly, if Chritians KNOW that the only way any man can attain heaven is through Christ, what kind of Christian’s would they be if they did NOT pray for ALL the lost? In fact, Christ commanded that the Gospel be preached to the “JEW first, then to the Gentile.”
Please think this through again, because praying for another person's well-being and redemption is in no way an insult. A blessing is not a slap in the face. We pray for everyone: for every single soul, both of the past and the present, both for the living and the dead.
It would be a real insult and, in fact, an outrage, to pray for the salvstion of the whole world "except for the Jews." And no, I would not be insulted if a person of another faith prayed for me to be purified of my sins and to gain eternal happiness. I hope to God that others are praying for me.
I ask you, if you are a praying person, to pray for me.
Wonderful interview. A must read! Thanks for the link.
"Some" is a dishonest journalistic device used to hide the author's own opinions behind the facade of imagined popular sentiment.
A pox on "some".
Thank you, sir, for the reminder.
Yes, it is a slap in the face. They didn’t ask you to pray for them. Every time a holier than thou Christian takes it upon themselves to pray for a group they are putting down that group.
And it's a joy to be there when he does. His sermon a couple of weeks ago about the five crosses over the Host was quite wonderful. We have re-arranged our schedule so that we can be in attendance at Easter Vigil again this year.
Easter Vigil starts at 4:00 at St Margaret Mary for all of you within taxi range !!
Christians are commanded by Christ to pray for the salvation of all people and to work towards that salvation (Great Commission). They are not putting down that group.
By the way, are all Christians holier than thou to you?
Prayer for another is simply the expression of desire for the well being and eternal happiness of the person prayed for. It doesn't put the person praying above the person prayed for, because we are all sinners and merit the salvation that we pray for only through the goodness and mercy of God.
It is not putting anybody down. If I receive a wonderful gift, too much for me to use, and I ask my neighbors to 'come and share', am I "putting them down"? Am I "showing off"? No, I am sharing with them the best thing I have.
If a neighbor gives me a narrow suspicious look and asks, "What's the catch?" that's not my fault . . . or my problem. He doesn't HAVE to share if he doesn't want to.
I’m so out of touch with our “sensitive” and “politically correct” society! See, my problem is that I’ve had a deep love for Israel and the Jewish people since the Six Day War, when as a Baptist 11 year old, I prayed that God would not let Nasser destroy them. I’ve spent most of the 40 years since, regardless of the denomination I was in at a particular time, praying almost every day for God to shower His Love, Grace and Blessings on Israel and the Jewish people. I guess some folks would get all “offended” and a knot in their drawers about that! Too bad. I’ll stop praying for the Lord to bless Israel and the Jewish people when the undertaker pries my Rosary out of my cold dead hands!
***Yes, it is a slap in the face. They didn’t ask you to pray for them. Every time a holier than thou Christian takes it upon themselves to pray for a group they are putting down that group.***
Interesting.
Are you claiming that it’s better to take the fast track to hell than for Christians to pray for conversion of those individuals?
We hope to attend a Latin Easter Mass in a VERY small town an hour way. But I have a gout flare up, just can’t handle the clutch pedal well. Happy Easter to all.
“But the revitalized tradition is drawing controversy. Some question whether the traditional rite is too outdated for a church grappling with the needs of a diverse membership and facing unprecedented challenges, such as an increasingly interreligious world.”
This is an argument against the Latin Mass? Absolutely incredible. Whose first language today (or, for that matter, in the past millenium-plus) is Latin? Part of what made the church “universal” for centuries is that the language of the Mass was exactly the same, universally. Which brings up an irony that still chafes: No sooner had the language-change occured, Catholics were suddenly and unaccountably provided with “liturgy” books in exactly the same language as what was spoken from the altar!
This goes right back to the octopus of diversity.
I am neither an Evangelical Christian, nor a Mormon, nor a Jehovah's Witness, and yet I have had representatives from all three of these groups come to my house, ring my doorbell, give me an invitation to come to their church, and promise to pray for me.
I was not interested in their church because I did not share their religious convictions. Nevertheless, I thanked them for making the effort to secure blessings for me and my family.
There is no need for anyone to insult, or to feel insulted, when they are prayed for. Any time someone prays for "sinners" or "for those who need to see the light," I know I am in the prayed-for group, and I feel that either I'm being blessed, or that "it can't hurt."
I think it a poor policy in general to insist on taking insult when no insult is intended.
If a local church wants a latin mass so be it. If it doesn't, so be it. All this scanctimony about pro and con is ridiculous. A
nd I can't believe the posters here who think latin is the traditional. The traditional is local language. That's what Pentecost was all about. Get over yourselves.
This is a wonderful explanation.
Happy Easter to you, dear steve86!
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