Posted on 03/16/2008 8:54:30 PM PDT by Quix
WHAT DID JESUS BRING OUT IN PEOPLE?
This has been an interesting topic for me much of my life. I've pondered it long and hard.
But what are your opinions, perspectives, convictions, observations?
Some might think that on the face of it, it would be an easy question to answer.
Jesus--perfect Love, Wisdom, Gentleness, Kindness . . . must have always brought out the Best in people--in all He met. Sounds lauditory. Sounds kosher.
But what does the historical record indicate?
Was it the same for all people? All types of people? All personalities? People of all value orientations?
Were there some sorts of people that He tended to bring out the best in MORE than other types?
Did He bring out the worst in anyone?
Were there some He tended to bring out the worst in MORE than other types?
If so, what distinguished the different types of people and the best or worst that flowed out of them in interactions with Jesus?
What value differences were there?
What personality differences were there?
What goal differences were there?
What reference group differences were there?
What IN-GROUP/OUT-GROUP differences were there?
What power orientation differences were there?
Were there any contextual differences or where any differences all centered within the individual?
What percentage or what types of differences were intrinsic to the individual vs extrinsic?
We seem to have evolved in our current era a mentality that flooded in with the satanic value that "THERE IS NO RIGHT OR WRONG" . . . that if a given individual is poor, criminal, evil, destructive--it MUST be society's fault; someone else's fault. The individual by definition can't own ANY responsibility for their actions.
Yet, when we consider the historical record and Jesus on that score--such a notion simply won't fly. Perfection cannot be responsible for evil. The evil was NOT in Christ. Was not in what Christ brought to the interaction.
What are the implications of that?
And what are the implications of the answers to the above questions for our relationships with fellow believers as well as with the heathen pagans we touch daily?
What's reality? What's fantasy? What's bias? What's truth in all the above?
Are we living in lala land out of an addiction to our comfort zones on such issues?
Do we slip and slide with the person in our mirror on such issues because we are loathe to really face ourselves?
Do we run from accountability to ourselves, to our Lord, to one another because we are wimps in such matters?
What are the implications in our relationships of these issues?
All of the above...
END TIMES and PROTTY1 PING LIST PING
Please, please, please!
ELABORATE!
The first one comes to mind is how differently Martha and Mary reacted to him.
Everyday is a choice in each believer’s life to anxiously fretfully labor to serve Him or to simply rest in His presence.
Some days I’m a Martha, others, a Mary.
WHAT DID JESUS BRING OUT IN PEOPLE?
___________________________________________
some were grateful and worshipped Him...the woman with the issue of blood...
some were astounded that He knew what was in their heart...the woman by the welll...
some hated Him and wanted him dead...the Pharisses...
Some readily gave up everything and followed Him....the disciples...
Great interesting points. Thanks.
Thanks for the ping!
Excellent examples . . .
What seems most to have decided within each individual . . . such differences?
You are welcome, as always.
*Rimshot*
Seriously...
"what distinguished the different types of people"
John 3:20-21 - "Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."
'satanic value that "THERE IS NO RIGHT OR WRONG"'
This is an example of what the Nicolaitans taught, which Jesus singles out as something to be avoided. (Revelation 2:6, 2:15)
St. Paul counters similar gnostic nonsense, i.e. 1 Corinthians 6:12-20, etc.
"What Did Jesus Bring Out In People? Best? Worst? Both?"
Both.
Simon Magus can be seen trying to purchase the Holy Spirit in Acts 8. (This is where the word "Simony" comes from.)
In the very next chapter, we see St. Paul's conversion and St. Peter healing/raising.
Personally, I believe that those who came into the presence of the Lord showed their “real” selves. I don’t believe any could dissemble to the Lord’s face, unless it was Judas (and I believe he did so only by omission rather than outright lying to the Lord). So I think people can’t pretend to be something they aren’t in His presence, unlike with each other. And I believe that will be true of the Judgment Day. We won’t be able to lie about ourselves to Him or to yourselves. That said, I agree with another poster who said one might be different, depending on the circumstances. I, also, can be Mary one time and Martha the next. I just think the Lord brought out the real people in the same way that disaster doesn’t change a person’s personality, it merely reveals it.
“what distinguished the different types of people”
John 3:20-21 - “Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.”
###
I believe that’s a very pregnant Scripture in this discussion.
So, one answer is . . . Jesus brings out the worst in folks who
1. DO EVIL.
Any other Scriptural or other points on either side?
As the embodiment of Truth - He brings out the truth in people. (John 14:6) Whatever that ‘truth’ is.
The demons hated him and trembled because He knew who they were. (Mark 5, Luke 4)
Those predestined for salvation tremble because He shows them the truth of their sin.
His word exposes hypocrites, liars, heathen, and backsliders; while at the same time convicts the faithful of their shortcomings and sins.
His truth exposes us to how utterly small we are, and how magnified He is. How petty and vile we are, versus how glorified and omniscient He is.
He is Truth, nothing can be hidden from Him, and His word accomplishes all He intends it to do.
I think that's an excellent point. The fierceness of His All Knowing Person won't allow less. Yet, for the confessed, repentant, forgiven, His Love brings redemptive wholeness and unity regardless.
That said, I agree with another poster who said one might be different, depending on the circumstances. I, also, can be Mary one time and Martha the next.
I agree . . . yet, near The Lord--'Tis the authentic person that comes out--regardless--as you noted above. And, we are often authentically mixtures.
I just think the Lord brought out the real people in the same way that disaster doesn’t change a person’s personality, it merely reveals it.
EMPHATICALLY SO. And, I think that's one of the purposes of refiner's fires . . . even small testings . . . giving us a chance to OVERCOME by The Blood . . . our testimony--to demonstrate to satan, God and the world--but ALSO TO OURSELVES that God has been busy and effectively conforming us to the image of His Son and that as we cooperate with Him--we CAN AND WILL OVERCOME MORE.
I have often been brought to the place where I HAD to confess that I wanted sweet wine to pour out of my being crushed, vs vinegar.
Thanks much for your excellent response.
Divide it in two; John 3:20 and 3:21. (Sorry if I was unclear on the intended contrast.)
The demons hated him and trembled because He knew who they were. (Mark 5, Luke 4)
I strongly agree. Excellent Scriptures on that score.
His truth exposes us to how utterly small we are, and how magnified He is. How petty and vile we are, versus how glorified and omniscient He is.
He is Truth, nothing can be hidden from Him, and His word accomplishes all He intends it to do.
Quite so. Quite so.
He IS High and Lifted UP. His train fills the Temple. Woe am I a man of unclean lips, and fingers.
One of my Baptist PhD bosses at a Baptist counseling center . . . refused to sing, in Amazing Grace . . . such a worm as I [I think that's the song and word] . . . He'd always sing instead "such a man as I." Though he had been very successful in the Navy--a wing Commander in Viet Nam; An office next to the CNO in the Pentagon . . . he still had to post around his home and say several times a day for 6 months before he began to believe it: "I'm not perfect AND that's OK." and "I'm OK, God don't make junk."
And it was in that context that he began to refuse to sing 'such a worm as I.'
But I think he lost something precious and priceless when he made that shift.
It is important for us to realize that we are made in the image of God; that He has us written in the palm of His hand; that He is conforming us to the image of His Son; that we are the 'apple of His eye.' And, to love ourselves in healthy fitting balanced ways that we may more effectively and authentically love our neighbors.
However, I believe that must be based on the reality that before God--we are to be broken and contrite to the uttermost. When God is saying--now is not the time to sit on Daddy's lap but now is the time to cast our crowns at His feet prostrate before Him--THAT must be our delight and our awareness of the clay whereof we were dug from.
In THAT light, imho, it is a precious thing to sing, "for such a worm as I." For CHRIST CAME TO SAVE THAT WHICH WAS LOST. I WAS LOST, UTTERLY and for quie valid cause. We do well to NEVER lose sight of that.
Thanks for your excellent response.
Ahhhhh. thanks. Will post the verses’ text later, I hope.
It can be a tricky issue. But I think basically it’s simple.
Until we can accept rather thoroughly and completely the clay we were dug from . . . and that there is no good thing in our flesh . . . we cannot partake wholly of God’s conforming us to the Image of His Son.
imho.
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