Jesus Christ is God (John 8: 46-59)

DRBO ^ | 1st century A.D. | The Gospel According to John

[Pyro7480]

"At that time Jesus said to the multitudes of the Jews: 'Which of you shall convince me of sin? If I say the truth to you, why do you not believe me? He that is of God, heareth the words of God. Therefore you hear them not, because you are not of God.' The Jews therefore answered, and said to him: Do not we say well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil? Jesus answered: 'I have not a devil: but I honour my Father, and you have dishonoured me. But I seek not my own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth. Amen, amen I say to you: If any man keep my word, he shall not see death for ever.' The Jews therefore said: Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest: If any man keep my word, he shall not taste death for ever. Art thou greater than our father Abraham, who is dead? and the prophets are dead. Whom dost thou make thyself? Jesus answered: 'If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father that glorifieth me, of whom you say that he is your God. And you have not known him, but I know him. And if I shall say that I know him not, I shall be like to you, a liar. But I do know him, and do keep his word. Abraham your father rejoiced that he might see my day: he saw it, and was glad.' The Jews therefore said to him: Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said to them: 'Amen, amen I say to you, before Abraham was made, I am.' They took up stones therefore to cast at him. But Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple."

[Eagle Eye]

You claim that Jesus is fully man and fully God.

The Bible makes no such claim.

[aruanan]

That would mean that G-d has died.

G-d cannot die, therefore Christ cannot be G-d.

(Did not Christ die for your sins?)

Your theology is on par with your logic. You're equivocating. In the first instance you're using "die" to refer to the cessation of physical, human life. In the second instance, you're using "die" to mean "to cease to exist". You can't use a single word with two different meanings in the same argument and have a valid conclusion. Your conclusion is invalid.

We could just as easily start out this way: If it is true that Jesus was God born in human flesh (as the Gospel of John said, "[God] tabernacled among us"), and Jesus died, then it is true that God experienced death.

Your only option is to deny that Jesus is God born in human flesh. It's not logic that prevents one from accepting the testimony of both Jesus and eyewitnesses, but simple unbelief. The next thing to do is to ask what makes disbelief worth more to someone than believing?

[Pyro7480]

I guess the Scripture at the head of this thread is in your Bible, Mister Aping the Mohammadan Line on God.

[Pyro7480]

I don’t know where they come up with their ideas.

[HereInTheHeartland]

“Christ is the archangel Michael. Michael was God’s first creation. Jesus is God’s son.

Jesus is not God.”

---

Nonsense.
Jesus is God and also is the Son of God. God became man to save His creation.
The Trinity is a difficult concept to understand but it is real.

[slag]

I assume by your post that you are a practicing Jew. I'm curious to know how do you follow the Law without a Tabernacle, a High Priest, or sacrifices.

[Ezekiel]

It doesn’t mix the two as men do.

Good point.

0894 Babel {baw-bel'}
from 01101; TWOT - 197; n pr loc
AV - Babylon 257, Babylonian + 01121 3, Babel 2; 262
Babel or Babylon = "confusion (by mixing)"

1) Babel or Babylon, the ancient site and/or capital of Babylonia (modern Hillah) situated on the Euphrates

From 1101...

01101 balal {baw-lal'}
a primitive root; TWOT - 248; v
AV - mingled 37, confound 2, anointed 1, mixed 1, give provender 1, tempered 1, non translated variant 1; 44

1) to mix, mingle, confuse, confound
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to mingle, confuse
1a2) to mix
1a3) to give provender, feed (animals)
1b) (Hithpoel) to mix oneself (among others)
1c) (Hiphil) to fade away

[Eagle Eye]

You start with a bias then seek scriptures to support your bias while ignoring clear verses that sink your theories.

We are admonished to be workers of the Word who won’t need to be ashamed of our work.

Instead of a craftsman of the Word you are the jerry-rig master of slaping verses together to make them say exactly what they don’t say.

[Pyro7480]

So why did the Jews want to stone Jesus?

[Kevmo]

bmflr on the deity of Christ

[Eagle Eye]

God made it available for us to know him and his mysteries by revelation of Jesus Christ and the written word.

How is it that the Bible NEVER says “God the Son”, “Trinity”, “True Man, True God”?

God certainly could have had it say that if it wanted it to.

2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that [pertain] unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

Eph 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

Eph 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

To believe the trinity, one must ignore clear scripture, take scripture out of context, twist scripture, use unBiblical terms and concepts, then declare it all a divine mystery when he can no longer argue and substantiate his point.

[StAthanasiustheGreat]

Jesus Christ is the Son of God
The Son of God is God
Therefore Jesus Christ is God

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God . . . And the Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us, and we saw his glory, the glory as of the Father’s only Son, full of grace and truth.” (John 1:1-2,14)

The Word is God
Jesus is the word made Flesh
Therefore Jesus is God

[stillonaroll]

That would mean that G-d has died. G-d cannot die, therefore Christ cannot be G-d.

I am curious: why you did not type "God"?

[Eagle Eye]

Jhn 19:6 When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify [him], crucify [him]. Pilate saith unto them, Take ye him, and crucify [him]: for I find no fault in him.

Jhn 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.

because he made himself the Son of God.

because he made himself the Son of God.

LOL...not because he made himself to be God!!

[HereInTheHeartland]

Here are a few:

Matthew 28:19
19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

2 Corinthians 13:14
14May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

1 Peter 1:2
2who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood:
Grace and peace be yours in abundance.

Revelation 1:4-5
Greetings and doxology
4John,
To the seven churches in the province of Asia:
Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits[a] before his throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.

[Pyro7480]

I repeat what I said in post #4 above: "I AM." Does that not sound familiar to you?

[Eagle Eye]

How is it that the Bible NEVER says “God the Son”, “Trinity”, “True Man, True God”?

None of those verses contain those words and one of your proof texts is a forgery, not in the greek texts!

[Eagle Eye]

1Cr 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: a

So Paul is God, too?

If all it takes is to say I am.....

You’ll cling to anything despite scriptures that dispel your theories.

When you put it all together so as to make a comprehensive statement, you can’t because so many scriptures refute what you say.

You can’t handle how the Bible says that no man has seen God at any time yet many people saw Jesus Christ.

But you’ll claim that Jesus was Jesus before Jesus was born, meaning that he was really God.

However, if you read and believe the clear scriptures THEN look at the others, there is no contradiction at all, they all fit.

Bottom line is that your model of Jesus as God has many problems, yet the Bible’s model of Jesus as the Son of God is clear, easy to understand, and flawless.

[Quester]

You are saying then that God died but raised himself from the dead.

The Bible clearly calls Jesus a man. How do you explain that?

Jesus was a man.

But the Bible also clearly says that the Word, which was with God in the beginning, ... and was God, ... became flesh and dwelt among us as Christ.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.
...

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father) full of grace and truth.


The Bible also says that He that was born in Bethlehem to be the ruler of Israel, ... had His origins in eternity.

Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.


The Bible also says that Jesus taught that He existed ... before Abraham.

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.


The Bible also says that He that was born of the virgin was ... the Mighty God.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.


The Bible also says that that Jesus prayed (before His crucifixion) ... that He would be restored to the glory that He shared with the Father ... before the world was.

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.


The Bible also says that Christ relinquished His equality with God, and became man, and went to the cross in obedience to the Father, and now has been raised up to rule all things.

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


How do you explain these ?


The Bible also says that nothing is impossible with God.


I imagine that you can't explain that.

But of course ... neither can I ... and I don't expect to be able to.

[pby]

Not in those exact terms...no.

But that has been a way of describing the incarnation and kenosis of Christ.

He was God and the Word made flesh.