Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: fproy2222
If you believe what you just said, then you must also believe Paul's (or “paulsies’” in the same degrading way you say Smith) first vision was not true. He told the account in different ways in different places in the Bible.

Ahhhhh, significant difference here. Paul's accounts are not contradictory, whereas smitties' are. First off, pro-lds sites present the information

http://www.mormonthink.com/

So lets compare smitties accounts 1832 - earliest version by smitties own hand found in History, 1832, Joseph Smith Letterbook 1, pp.2,3, in the handwriting of Joseph Smith (See An American Prophet’s Record, edited by Scott Faulring, Signature Books, 1989, p.5; The Personal Writings of Joseph Smith, compiled by Dean Jessee, Deseret Book, 1984, pp. 5-6; Early Mormon Documents, vol.1, compiled by Dan Vogel, Signature Books, 1996, pp. 26-31)
I've read internet context, so unless you can specify my error here, here are the details
Smith started serious study of the scriptures at age 12; Felt convicted of sins; Determined all churches were wrong; No mention of a revival; Omits money-digging context; Occured at age 15 (in his 16th year); Location not clear and had a vision of the Savior – Jesus Christ

1834-35 Next recantation is found in LDS periodical Messenger and Advocate, Kirtland, Ohio, Dec. 1834, vol.1, no.3

Again, in summary
A revival stirred in him a desire to “know for himself of the certainty and reality of pure and holy religion.” Desired to know if a Supreme being did exist, and wanted manifestation that his sins were forgiven. Occured when he was age 17 (1823); He was in his bedroom; Had a vision of an angel and was told sins were forgiven and Lord would do a work through him; Told about gold plates and their location.

1838 "Official Version" Joseph Smith — History, 1:7-20. Though written in 1838, it was not published until 1842 in Times and Season, March 15, 1842, vol. 3, no. 10, pp. 727-728, 748-749, 753.

In summary again:
A local revival caused him to wonder which church was right, it had never occurred to him all were wrong; His age was 14 (1820); he was in a grove; had a vision of two personages; One identifies the other as his son (by implication God the Father and Jesus, but not explicitly stated) ;Was told all churches are wrong and is to join none of them ;Claimed to come under great persecution Fell into all kinds of temptations.

These are all lds sources. I've not included the accounts by smith to Peter Bauder (1830), Joshua (1835), Erastus Holmes (1835) or second hand accounts/understandings from Smith's closest circle and later prophets and seers of mormonism.

Questions arise almost immediately - how old was he (14, 15, or 17)? Where was it (bedroom, 'grove' or unknown)? Who/what appeared to him (an angel, Jesus alone or both the Father and Jesus)? Was there or was there not a revival? I read the various accounts, so where are they incomplete?

556 posted on 03/13/2008 11:41:42 AM PDT by Godzilla (Today's mighty oak tree is just yesterdays nut who held it's ground.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 542 | View Replies ]


To: Godzilla
Ahhhhh, significant difference here. Paul's accounts are not contradictory, whereas smitties’ are. First off, pro-lds sites present the information

++++++++++++

You say that leaving something out of one version and having it in another is proof it is false. (Paul did this)

And you think it is proper to use what other people say as if Brother Joesph said it.

and from what you just said, you have not studied it four yourself.

559 posted on 03/13/2008 11:55:37 AM PDT by fproy2222
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 556 | View Replies ]

To: Godzilla
First off, pro-lds sites present the information

http://www.mormonthink.com/

++++++++++++

Sorry to take so long in getting back about this one, I spent some time studying your “pro-LDS” sight.

Did you notice his desire in having the site is to change the Church to something you would call Christian because he thinks like the Tanners that the Church needs changing.

Of course, that is past a sound-bite and “not worth learning”.

618 posted on 03/13/2008 11:46:57 PM PDT by fproy2222
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 556 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson