Mormonism increasingly draws Spanish-speakers as converts

Arizona Daily Star ^ | March 8, 2008 | Stephanie Innes

[Zakeet]

Spanish-speakers are fueling growth in the local Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which recently opened new worship space on Tucson's predominantly Hispanic South Side.

Many local Mormon worshippers, like 47-year-old Juan Arroyo, converted to the faith from Catholicism while living in their native countries. Arroyo, a roofer who has four children, joined the church when he lived in Guadalajara, Mexico. He's been in the United States for seven years.

"I was missing something, and my life changed greatly after meeting the missionaries," he said in Spanish.

Nationally, the number of Spanish-speaking congregations in the Mormon church grew by 64 percent between 2000 and 2006. There are 639 such congregations in the United States.

[Snip]

The church is growing quickly in Mexico.

Church officials say its presence there began in 1875 when Brigham Young, then denomination president, called on six missionaries from Salt Lake City to bring Spanish-language materials about the church to Mexico. In 1885, a group of nearly 400 colonists from Utah arrived at northern Mexico's Casas Grandes River. Mexico's first stake was created in Colonia Juárez in 1895. By 1912, more than 4,000 members had settled in Chihuahua and Sonora.

More than 1 million members now live in Mexico, a predominantly Catholic country with a population of about 108 million.

[fproy2222]

and yet, even most of the handles I still see returning are using less inflammatory language.

[greyfoxx39]

and yet, even most of the handles I still see returning are using less inflammatory language.

RESPONDING to less inflammatory language also.

[Enosh]

Death to inflammatory language!

Oh, wait... wrong thread...

[Zakeet]

And yet, even most of the handles I still see returning are using less inflammatory language ... RESPONDING to less inflammatory language also.

In fairness to Fred, it's been at least a month since any Saint called me a dimwitted troll who eats viper food.

Professionally, this garbage doesn't bother me. I've been called far worse over far less.

Personally, it breaks my heart.

Mormons are wonderful people. I have several close friends who are LDS. And I have some LDS family members whom I love with all my heart. And they have all been terribly misled. By their church. And by their prophets. To the point where, if the Bible is true, they are condemned to spend eternity in the agony and torment of hell.

If these intelligent people would only step back a small distance and apply the laugh test to the absurd tales in the Book of Mormon, ponder the contradictions in their scripture, critically examine Joseph's false prophesies, objectively study their own history, demand openness in their church's accounting and records, or any other number of things. All of their everlasting anguish would be averted.

My constant prayer is for any Mormon to accept any one of my challenges. Take my contentions apart. Rebut them with hard evidence. Turn away from ad hominem attacks and nonsense answers. Turn toward the truth

Based on private communications, several Saints have done this and are now seeking a relationship with the Jesus portrayed in the Bible -- not the Spirit Brother of Lucifer. Of course, I have no way of knowing how many others, Mormons and Gentiles, Freepers and Lurkers, have done this.

But because my heart aches for these wonderful people, I will continue to try to shine light on their darkness.

Therefore, Fred and Resty, I implore both of you, and any other Saint who might read this post,

Please provide me with as many examples as possible of instances where I personally lied, renamed something, or engaged in "gutter talk?"

I would like to learn from my mistakes, and then issue the appropriate apologies and retractions.

Thank you.

/Zak

[P-Marlowe]

I would like to learn from my mistakes, and then issue the appropriate apologies and retractions.

You said earlier in the thread that the Mexican Polygamists were called "Romneyites" which suggested that the polygamists in Mexico were not part of the Utah LDS Church but some kind of breakaway sect. That is not true. The Mexican polygamists were all in the Utah Church and were sanctioned by the Utah Church and continued to practice Polygamy until at least 1912 when the Mexican Revolution broke out and most, if not all of them moved to the US.

When George Romney came to the US in 1912, he did not have to join the Utah LDS Church because he was already a member in good standing.

So you were wrong Zakeet. :-)

But this episode clearly shows that the LDS Church continued to practice polygamy into the 20th Century even though they denied that it was being allowed.

IIRC the last officially "sanctioned" polygamous marriage in the Utah LDS Church took place in 1914.

[SkyPilot]

I have several close friends who are LDS. And I have some LDS family members whom I love with all my heart. And they have all been terribly misled. By their church. And by their prophets. To the point where, if the Bible is true, they are condemned to spend eternity in the agony and torment of hell. If these intelligent people would only step back a small distance and apply the laugh test to the absurd tales in the Book of Mormon, ponder the contradictions in their scripture, critically examine Joseph's false prophesies, objectively study their own history, demand openness in their church's accounting and records, or any other number of things. All of their everlasting anguish would be averted. My constant prayer is for any Mormon to accept any one of my challenges. Take my contentions apart. Rebut them.

The best post to our LDS friends in a long time.

[JRochelle]

The corruption that you see in third world countries has nothing to do with their religion.

It is the culture and the society itself. If you lived there you would do what is necessary to survive. Those societies are corrupt from the top down.

[SkyPilot]

_{One of the occultic parchments owned by Hyrum Smith. The circular objects are known in witchcraft as pentacles. They are used by magicians to gain power over the spirit world. Hyrum Smith, Joseph Smith’s brother, was one of the eight witnesses to the Book of Mormon. He was very close to Joseph and was incarcerated with him in the Carthage jail. He was killed by the mob in the same blazing gunfight that ended the life of the first Mormon prophet.}

[fproy2222]

Please provide me with as many examples as possible of instances where I personally lied, renamed something, or engaged in “gutter talk?”

++++++++

Start with this one.

On a number of occasions, you have refereed folks to a cartoon called “Cartoon banned by the Mormon church”

One of the many misleading, gutter talk, items, among others, is that they say God came down and had sex with Mary.

Since we teach and believe that Mary was a virgin when Christ was born, this idea from the film is untrue.
There is another teaching that is used, without looking at the rest of our teachings, that is used as proof of this untruth.

Since you linked to the cartoon, I must believe you agree with the film and the way it was presented, or , you did not check out the truth of it, and the way it is presented..

[restornu]

I am not talking about “polygamy” it is the uses of the word “Romneyites” it was a slur and it never happen!

I have always said I have no problem with Plural marriage I believe the ordinance came for the Lord.

“They founded a group known as the Romneyites.” ~ Zakeet

Zakeet the Romney’s were always LDS and there was no cult to leave.

“IIRC, George’s father left the cult but chose to remain in Mexico. George emigrated to the United States where he joined the Utah LDS church” ~ Zakeet

The name Romneyites a word that came from McCain to described those who voted for Romney in this election of 2008.

Elsie you keep posting the FLDS that has never been in anyway shape anything to do with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints yet you want to confused the others to think it does.

The LDS have never been a threat to any Church it has nothing to do with defended your faith, there were a whole group of Catholics that were pro Romney in the election because we all support the same moral issues.

You feel that your faith is threaten than the anti dot is to do the things Jesus taught and stop sounding brass.

1 Cor. 13: 1
1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

This is how you Zakeet, Elsie, take events and rewrite history!

The way the two of you write things does escape the RM radar and makes it impossible to clean this up.

So you and you cohorts get to smear or poison the water and in the name of your brand of Christianity, of which I never seen Jesus practiced.

You get away with these nuances, because the Mods are not always sure what it is by the time you folks get through with it!

You folks have master the Art of Deception and went someone tries to untangle this stuff the more it stinks!

To me this has nothing to do with defend mainstream faith it is just a bunch of bullies that get away with maligning another group with impunity.

[fproy2222]

I wish I could have said it that well.

[P-Marlowe]

One of the many misleading, gutter talk, items, among others, is that they say God came down and had sex with Mary.

Shame on Brigham Young and all those nasty misleading gutter-talking false Prophets!

• '' I believe the Father came down from heaven, as the Apostles said he did, and begat the Savior of the World; for He is the Only Begotten of the Father which could not have been if the Father did not actually beget him in person''. (Journal of Discourses Vol. 1 page 238)

• ''When the time came that His first-born, the Savior, should come into the world and take a tabernacle, the Father came Himself and favoured that spirit with a tabernacle instead of letting any other man do it. The Savior was begotten by the Father of His spirit, by the same Being who is the Father of our spirits, and that is all the organic difference between Jesus Christ and you and me.'' (Journal of Discourses Vol. 4 page 218)

• ''The birth of the Savior was as natural as are the births of our children ; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood--was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers'' (Journal of Discourses Vol. 8 page 115)

• ...'' The man Joseph, the husband of Mary, did not, that we know of, have more than one wife, but Mary the wife of Joseph had another husband. .....That very babe that was cradled in the manger, was begotten, not by Joseph, the husband of Mary, but by another Being. Do you inquire by whom? He was begotten by God our Heavenly Father.''(Journal of Discourses Vol. 11 page 268)

[fproy2222]

and where in there does it say there was sex?

and what about the teachings and beliefs that Mary was a virgin?

[wintertime]

The corruption that you see in third world countries has nothing to do with their religion.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

If they followed the precepts of the Catholic religion they wouldn’t be corrupt.

I believe that most are Catholic in name only.

[MHGinTN]

So does resty ...

[P-Marlowe]

and where in there does it say there was sex?

 
'The Being whom we call Father was the Father of the spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ, and he was also his Father pertaining to the flesh.' (Journal of Discourses, Brigham Young, 7:286, October 9, 1859)

'l believe the Father came down from heaven, as the Apostles said he did, and begat the Savior of the World; for He is the Only Begotten of the Father which could not have been if the Father did not actually beget him in person'. (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses Vol. 1 page 238)

'The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood—was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers.' (Brigham Young, Journal Of Discourses, 8:115)

'What a learned idea! Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven. Now, let all who may hear these doctrines, pause before they make light of them, or treat them with indifference, for they will prove their salvation or damnation.' (Brigham Young, Journal Of Discourses, 1:51)

“[Jesus] was begotten of the Father, and he was born of the virgin Mary as my mother bore me and as my father begot me and as you begot your children.” (Brigham Young, July 14, 1861, in Eldon J. Watson, ed., Brigham Young Addresses: 1860-1864 (SLC: Elden J. Watson, 1980), vol. 4, reprinted in Eugene E. Campbell, ed., The Essential Brigham Young (SLC: Signature Books, 1992, p. 137)

'In relation to the way in which I look upon the works of God and his creatures, I will say that I was naturally begotten; so was my father, and also my Savior Jesus Christ. According to the Scriptures, he is the first begotten of his father in the flesh, and there was nothing unnatural about it.' (Heber C. Kimball, Journal of discourses, 8:211)

'The birth of the savior was a natural occurrence unattended with any degree of mysticism, and the Father God was the literal parent of Jesus in the flesh as well as in the spirit.' (Joseph Fielding Smith, Religious Truths Defined, p.44)

'You all know that your fathers are indeed your fathers and that your mothers are indeed your mothers you all know that don't you? You cannot deny it. Now, we are told in scriptures that Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God in the flesh. Well, now for the benefit of the older ones, how are children begotten? I answer just as Jesus Christ was begotten of his father. The Christian denominations believe that Christ was begotten not of God but of the spirit that overshadowed his mother. This is nonsense. Why will not the world receive the truth? Why will they not believe the Father when he says that Jesus Christ is His only begotten Son? Why will they try to explain this truth away and make mystery of it?' (Joseph Fielding Smith, Message of the First Presidency, 4:329)

'I want the little folks [children] to hear what I am going to tell you. I am going to tell you a simple truth, yet it is one of the greatest truths and one of the most simple facts ever revealed to the children of men. You all know that your fathers are indeed your fathers and that your mothers are indeed your mothers - you all know that don't you? You cannot deny it. Now, we are told in scriptures that Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God in the flesh. Well, now for the benefit of the older ones, how are children begotten? I answer just as Jesus Christ was begotten of his father...Now my little friends, I will repeat again in words as simple as I can, and you ask your parents about it, that God, the Eternal Father, is literally the father of Jesus Christ.' (Joseph F. Smith, Box Elder Stake Conference Dec 20, 1914 as quoted in Brigham City Box Elder News, 28 Jan, 1915, pp.1-2.) (Family Home Evening [Manual], Personal Commitment, copyright 1972 by Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, pages 125-126).

'It is very plain if men will comprehend, firstly, the fact, that God is the Father of man, spiritually, and that God is the Father of Jesus Christ, both temporally and spiritually, and that Jesus Christ is nothing more nor less than the Son of God, begotten of His Father, as absolutely, and as truly as any child was begotten of his earthly father. You don't need to mince the matter.' (Joseph F. Smith, Latter-Day Saints Follow Teachings of the Savior, Scrapbook of Mormon Literature, [1838-1918], Vol. 2, p.557)

[Tennessee Nana]

and where in there does it say there was sex?

and what about the teachings and beliefs that Mary was a virgin?
___________________________________________________

He partook of flesh and blood—was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers

You were begotten of your father through sex between you Mom and Dad...

To say Jesus “was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers” is unmistaken as anything but sex between mary and some man...or someone..

Actually, personally, I am appalled by this “scripture”

I am not a Catholic...my ancestors came to the US as FCrench Huguenots...but as a Christian, and Protestant, I believe that Mary was a virgin when she conceived..and remained a virgin until at least after the birth of Jesus...

Although I do not revere Mary like the Catholics do, i respect her position as the mother of Jesus...and I feel for the Catholics as they have to endure such blasphemy..

Jesus loved his mother and was a good son to her...to the point that He was concerned for her welfare even as He was dying, and in pain, upon the Cross...

When I see Mary slurred, I am incensed because the virgin birth is one of the tenets of Christianity...

The early mormons were sensual men and so had no faith in an explanation for the birth of Jesus other than the normal way...

It is not hard to imagine their declaration of Mary and their god having sex, as they hated the Catholic Church and called them apostate and damned, and they wanted to separate themselves from anything touching on Catholism...

What more appropriate (but blasphemous) than to degrade Mary, the symbol of purity to the Catholic believers

Also these were not men of faith so they could not and would not believe that God could cause a maiden to conceive...

and they did not read the Bible, in which Mary herself was told...Nothing is impossible with God...and Mary agreed to become pregnant...by the Holy Ghost..

[Tennessee Nana]

‘’The birth of the Savior was as natural as are the births of our children ; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood—was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers’’ (Journal of Discourses Vol. 8 page 115)

from Brigham Young’s ignorance

[fproy2222]

Your number 5 sumes it up well.

=+=+=
“[Jesus] was begotten of the Father, and he was born of the virgin Mary as my mother bore me and as my father begot me and as you begot your children.”
=+=+=

With Mary being a VIRIN she must have been begotten without sex.

How the natural begetting happened, we are not told, but by your using the word sex is to ignore the rest of the truth.

Or are you just following someone else's half-truthes?

[MHGinTN]

Number eight above is the most damning of Mormonism ... the Bible states that Jesus was begotten by The Spirit, and that Jesus is the only begotten of the Father. Thus The Spirit and God The Father are one, yet Mormonism doctrine holds them to be separate beings ‘in the godhead’, which would make actual nonsense, so they deny what the Bible says in order to make room for their liars and lies.