| This thread has been locked, it will not receive new replies. |
|
Locked on 03/09/2008 5:53:08 PM PDT by Admin Moderator, reason:
Enough! Flamewar locked. |
Posted on 02/28/2008 4:40:37 PM PST by Alex Murphy
NEW YORK, N.Y. (Catholic League) - Yesterday, Senator John McCain said he was “very honored by Pastor John Hagee’s endorsement.”
The Republican presidential hopeful also called Hagee “the staunchest leader of our Christian evangelical movement,” citing the minister’s pro-Israel stance.
Catholic League president Bill Donohue addressed this today:
“There are plenty of staunch evangelical leaders who are pro-Israel, but are not anti-Catholic. John Hagee is not one of them. Indeed, for the past few decades, he has waged an unrelenting war against the Catholic Church.
For example, he likes calling it ‘The Great Whore,’ an ‘apostate church,’ the ‘anti-Christ,’ and a ‘false cult system.’ To hear the bigot in his own words, click here. http://youtube.com/watch?v=uViQ0hVV57Q
Note: he isn’t talking about the Buddhists.
“In Hagee’s latest book, Jerusalem Countdown, he calls Hitler a Catholic who murdered Jews while the Catholic Church did nothing. ‘The sell-out of Catholicism to Hitler began not with the people but with the Vatican itself,’ he writes.
“For the record, Hitler persecuted the Catholic Church and was automatically excommunicated in 1931—two years before he assumed power—when he acted as best man at Joseph Goebbel’s Protestant wedding. Hitler even bragged about his separation from the Church.
As for doing nothing about the Holocaust, Sir Martin Gilbert reminds us that Goebbels denounced Pope Pius XII for his 1942 Christmas message criticizing the Nazis (the New York Times lauded the pope for doing so in an editorial for two years in a row).
Much to Hagee’s chagrin, Gilbert also says that Pius XII saved three quarters of the Jews in Rome, and that more Jews were saved proportionately in Catholic countries than Protestant countries. Indeed, Israeli diplomat Pinchas Lapide credited the Catholic Church with saving 860,000 Jews. No religion can match that.
(Excerpt) Read more at catholic.org ...
******************
Yes. When the conversation begins to lead me astray, I believe it is time to step away from it.
I firmly resolve, with the Help of Thy Grace, to sin no more and to avoid the near occasion of sin
In February 1931, the German bishops excommunicated all active Nazi party members. This included Hitler. This penalty was not imposed on those who merely voted Nazi. It was hoped to persuade them by argument. The same policy was in operation against the Communists. From http://www.churchinhistory.org/pages/leaf-sum/catholicsvnazis.htmYou have been corrected on that time and again. Telling lies is a poor way to persuade. When lies are told about a group can appear to be bigotry. Do you dispute these FACTS?
Indeed. Sad.
” Heinrich Himmler, Joseph Goebbels and Reinhard Heydrich were all practicing Roman Catholics until their death. “
So truth is simply ignored in your world? From 1931 forward the Church denied ALL Nazi Party members active membership. If the Nazi leaders aped public Catholicism that was in denial of Church authority. Since they also actively promoted pagan practices and horrific moral crimes, any continued claims that they were “Catholic” is clearly an attempt to pretend that the Church condoned them, their evil governance and their crimes. Dishonest bigotry in simple terms.
Some vague, post-dated excommunication is almost laughable.
You guys need to get hold of some unbiased history books and read them.
Ghandi must have fallen prey to the common illusion that the meaning of being a Christian is supposed to be “to be nice.”
“Some vague, post-dated excommunication is almost laughable.”
Not vague — ALL Nazi Party members were excommunicated.
Not post dated, 1931 PRE dated the war and the Nazi power seizure.
You might try reading Toland and Shirer to start. The descent of the Nazi Party into pagan occultism is well documented. Your continued efforts to paint the Nazi Party as endorsed by and allied with the Catholic Church is post war propaganda of the ugliest kind. Your continued lies truly document who you are. It ain’t a pretty picture “Dr”.
Great tag line.
Even Albert Speer, writing in Inside the Third Reich, p. 96 said, “Hitler never formally ended his church membership, but according to Albert Speer, “he had no real attachment to it.”
The Protestant Reich Church was formed by Adolf Hitler in 1933, by merging 28 regional churches into one Church. Does that sound like a “Catholic” idea?
Hitler’s private statements are more clear. There are negative statements about Christianity reported by Hitler’s intimates, Goebbels, Speer, and Bormann.[18] Joseph Goebbels, for example, notes in a diary entry in 1939: “The Führer is deeply religious, but deeply anti-Christian. He regards Christianity as a symptom of decay.” Albert Speer reports a similar statement: “You see, it’s been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn’t we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?”[19] In the Hossbach Memorandum Hitler is recorded as saying that “only the disintegrating effect of Christianity, and the symptoms of age” were responsible for the demise of the Roman empire.[20] In 1941, Hitler praised an anti-Christian tract from 362CE, Julian’s Against the Galileans, saying “I really hadn’t known how clearly a man like Julian had judged Christians and Christianity, one must read this...”[21] He was reported to say that religion should die on its own accord.[22]
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_religious_beliefs
You’ll never convince those who hate Christ’s Church. Their hearts are full of loathing and self-righteousness, hardened by centuries of false teaching and division resulting from the work of the evil one, and until the love of Christ softens their hearts they will not see the Truth.
I agree. But testifying as to the Truth is part of what I am called to do, no? Our Lord will move the hearts of those He wants.
Yes. Absolutely.
You are really doing yeoman’s work fighting anti-Catholic bigotry. We slackers are in your debt.
“You’ll never convince those who hate Christ’s Church. Their hearts are full of loathing and self-righteousness, hardened by centuries of false teaching and division resulting from the work of the evil one, and until the love of Christ softens their hearts they will not see the Truth.”
Yes, I agree. Still, there are many protestants who are good people and don’t subscribe to the bigotry.
Thanks.
Ah, so you are saying that Ghandi was focusing on others instead of Christ.
Too bad. The sinfulness of mankind is why Christ came - to save us from the ultimate result of that sin. Anyone who uses the imperfections of Christians as an excuse not to believe what Christ said has missed the whole point. (Sometimes purposefully.)
That would violate God's commandment to love God and His children. To correct a sinner is a mandated act of charity.
He denies that Jesus is the Messiah? Then how can he even be considered Christian? (Rather than say, Muslim.)
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.