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Posted on 02/28/2008 4:40:37 PM PST by Alex Murphy
NEW YORK, N.Y. (Catholic League) - Yesterday, Senator John McCain said he was “very honored by Pastor John Hagee’s endorsement.”
The Republican presidential hopeful also called Hagee “the staunchest leader of our Christian evangelical movement,” citing the minister’s pro-Israel stance.
Catholic League president Bill Donohue addressed this today:
“There are plenty of staunch evangelical leaders who are pro-Israel, but are not anti-Catholic. John Hagee is not one of them. Indeed, for the past few decades, he has waged an unrelenting war against the Catholic Church.
For example, he likes calling it ‘The Great Whore,’ an ‘apostate church,’ the ‘anti-Christ,’ and a ‘false cult system.’ To hear the bigot in his own words, click here. http://youtube.com/watch?v=uViQ0hVV57Q
Note: he isn’t talking about the Buddhists.
“In Hagee’s latest book, Jerusalem Countdown, he calls Hitler a Catholic who murdered Jews while the Catholic Church did nothing. ‘The sell-out of Catholicism to Hitler began not with the people but with the Vatican itself,’ he writes.
“For the record, Hitler persecuted the Catholic Church and was automatically excommunicated in 1931—two years before he assumed power—when he acted as best man at Joseph Goebbel’s Protestant wedding. Hitler even bragged about his separation from the Church.
As for doing nothing about the Holocaust, Sir Martin Gilbert reminds us that Goebbels denounced Pope Pius XII for his 1942 Christmas message criticizing the Nazis (the New York Times lauded the pope for doing so in an editorial for two years in a row).
Much to Hagee’s chagrin, Gilbert also says that Pius XII saved three quarters of the Jews in Rome, and that more Jews were saved proportionately in Catholic countries than Protestant countries. Indeed, Israeli diplomat Pinchas Lapide credited the Catholic Church with saving 860,000 Jews. No religion can match that.
(Excerpt) Read more at catholic.org ...
Göbbels would be so proud.
So much careful effort to distort just the cover photo is a clear indictment of the entire fetid volume.
If this is all you can find to slander the book with, then the book stands as truth.
His post is not a slander, it is just the first count of a long bill of particulars.
Cornwell, a Roman Catholic,
Jean Cauvin and Martin Luther were Catholics too, when they set out on their tragic journeys.
...set out to write a book that was flattering to Pacelli.
An obvious and self-serving lie. What's he going to say? "I set out to write a fraudulent hit piece?"
Why else would the Vatican give him permission to view "secret documents" that remain closed to the public to this day?
That statement is also false.
However, during Cornwell's research, he uncovered the unsavory truth that most Jews and most of the world have known all along.
During his research he distorted and lied and twisted the truth beyond all recognition.
The evidence speaks for itself.
It doesn't speak at all. The evidence virtually shouts: Cornwell is a liar.
Let me show you how this works:
The Bishops of Germany excommunicated all Nazis in February of 1931 and all German Catholics were told that they could not vote for a Nazi in the 1932 election. “Belonging to the National Socialist Party of Hitler is irreconcilable with the Catholic Conscience.” Osservatore Romano, 11 October 1930. Hitler and the Nazis received the votes of protestants while the Catholic vote went to Hindenburg, on average nearly 70%, who was a staunch protestant.
While a ferendae sententiae excommunication of Hitler is what some argued for, a latae sententiae excommunication is just as valid. History has shown us that ferendae sententiae excommunications rarely produce the desired result and often cause much greater harm than the intended correction of the individual in question. Learn your history and find out what resulted from the excommunications of people like Louis IV of Bavaria, Queen Elizabeth I, Napoleon and his Grand Armee. At the time the fear was that if Pius XII excommunicated Hitler ferendae sententiae, as he wanted to, then even more Jews as well as Catholics and even protestants would have been exterminated.
One need look no further than the words of Marcus Melchior, former chief rabbi of Denmark and holocaust survivor, to understand what would have resulted when he said “it is an error to think that Pius XII could have had any influence whatsoever on the brain of a madman. If the Pope had spoken out, Hitler would probably have massacred more than six million Jews and perhaps ten times ten million Catholics, if he had the power to do so.”
“The Myth of Hitler’s Pope” Rabbi David G. Dalin, p 78.
You should also learn what effect the pastoral letter concerning the treatment of the Jews that was distributed by the Dutch Bishops in July of 1942 had on the Nazis. It made things much worse if you were Jewish, or Catholic for that matter. When the Bishop of Munster, Clemens August von Galen, wanted to condemn the Nazis for their treatment of the Jews, local Jewish leaders implored him to remain quiet. In addition, Claus Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg, the Catholic, German military officer who played a major role in the attempted assassination of Hitler, sought and received permission from the Bishop of Berlin, Konrad Graf von Preysing, to try and kill Hitler.
In light of your deficient knowledge of this topic I wonder if you would make the same demands of the government to release all of Roosevelt’s musings, along with Cordell Hull and the southern Democrats who threatened to withhold support of FDR in the 1940 election, on what his rationale was for preventing the SS St. Louis, which was loaded with Jewish refugees, from docking at an American port. Many of those people people ended up dying in the Holocaust. You might also be interested to learn why FDR didn’t bomb all the rail lines leading to the death camps.
Lest you or any other member of the revisionist “Hitler was a Catholic” cabal here have any remaining doubts I want you to take into consideration his own words and then tell me with a straight face that the Fuhrer indeed remained a Catholic.
“The Third Reich does not desire a modus vivendi with the Catholic Church, but rather its destruction with lies and dishonor, in order to make room for a German Church in which the German race will be glorified.”
“Hitler, the War and the Pope”, Ronald J. Rychlak, p. 93.
Is it that your church teaches that there are different types/levels of Grace and you need them all in order to be saved?
I really don't know a lot of the details surrounding the RCC and Germany prior to or during WWII. I think that because the RCC first became sponsored by the state and then later became the state religion and now is recognized as an independent state (the Vatican) there is a political component to it. Obviously there are times that the RCC operates in what it perceives to be it's best interest and not Christianity as a whole, but thats probably rooted in the discredited idea of exclusivity.
As a Baptist we are loosely organized and gather in associations. A very decentralized structure, similar to what you find in the early church especially during the Apostolic Era. Thus you don't see Baptist "leaders" negotiating treaties because any Baptist "leader" can't command all Baptists to do something. If we were organized in a centralized hierarchy it's possible a Baptist "leader" would be seen with a head of state.
I know its long winded, but I don't want to think that the RCC's hierarchy operated out of an anti semitic thinking. I think it's more likely that any mistakes they made were done from a desire to "protect their church". They were probably hedging their bets till they knew who would win the war. A secular, political thinking.
BTW, I'm stuck home today and saw John Macarthur. Terrific, great insight.
Interesting. Of the world.....
If you are "stuck" at home you could do much, much worse than Macarthur.
Even with all the error that has crept into that church, it's hard to believe the clergy at the highest levels would be filled with hate for a racial group. They would have to be evil at the core. I just can't believe it to be the case.
I think it goes back to the discarded notion of Apostolic Succession.
If you are "stuck" at home you could do much, much worse than Macarthur.
Great message. He talked about the religious hierarchy in the Temple and the woman who gave the last of her money to the Temple in the hopes that it would buy her blessings and change her circumstances. What was interesting was Jesus did not hold up the woman as an example of Faith, or condemn her for misplaced Faith. Rather Jesus condemned the Temple hierarchy and a religious caste that would treat widows and orphans so terribly.
He then pointed out how indulgences to build cathedrals and empower the religious caste prior to the Reformation were no different. Again widows were giving their last pennies to hope for a blessing. Very powerful I hadn't really though of indulgences with the Temple hierarchy in mind.
Even with all the error that has crept into that church, it's hard to believe the clergy at the highest levels would be filled with hate for a racial group. They would have to be evil at the core. I just can't believe it to be the case.
I think it goes back to the discarded notion of Apostolic Succession.
If you are "stuck" at home you could do much, much worse than Macarthur.
Great message. He talked about the religious hierarchy in the Temple and the woman who gave the last of her money to the Temple in the hopes that it would buy her blessings and change her circumstances. What was interesting was Jesus did not hold up the woman as an example of Faith, or condemn her for misplaced Faith. Rather Jesus condemned the Temple hierarchy and a religious caste that would treat widows and orphans so terribly.
He then pointed out how indulgences to build cathedrals and empower the religious caste prior to the Reformation were no different. Again widows were giving their last pennies to hope for a blessing. Very powerful I hadn't really though of indulgences with the Temple hierarchy in mind.
Noncense, "doctor". You should read the scripture every now and then as you copy and paste it with your mouse.
"baptism being of the like form [of water], now saveth you also" (1 Peter 3:21)
You need to be in the state of sanctifying grace as you die. Yes, there are kinds of grace. It is a long subject: Grace.
Always happy to go to Scripture, Alex. Let's see what the KJV gives as the entire verse...
"The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ" -- 1 Peter 3:21
We can all read for ourselves how Peter clearly says (because he anticipated your error) that it's not the actual water that saves nor even the cleansing of our flesh that saves, but by God's grace alone which enables our minds to give the "answer of a good conscience" which is through faith in Jesus Christ and His resurrection.
"Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water." -- Hebrews 10:22
Those who are stuck in the material world need our prayers. God's family is spiritually-reborn with the spiritual water of Christ.
"He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water." -- John 7:38
Sandy, what an illuminating post. Thank you for taking the time to compile information from many sources into one post. I had seen the accusations against Pius XII now and again, but had never taken the time to research their validity myself.
Interesting that there has been no response to your post thus far. FWIW, I thank you again for your time and effort in researching this matter and presenting the information to those of us (myself included) who previously knew little about it.
The way Calvinists defend this book, you'd think it was scripture to them. It makes you wonder why it is so important to them for the entire content of this book to be true. Maybe it takes the focus off the inaction of their denominations to help save the Jews?? Pius XII is credited with saving over 800,000. That just seems to eat away at some folks.
Thanks for your efforts in getting the facts out front and center.
Interview with Historian David Dalin of New York
RIMINI, Italy, (ZENIT.org-Avvenire).- What does New York Rabbi David Dalin think of Pope Pius XII?
"The Jewish people had no greater friend in the 20th century," says the historian.
According to Rabbi Dalin, who last Wednesday addressed the meeting organized by the Catholic movement Communion and Liberation, "during the Second World War, Pius XII saved more Jewish lives than any other person, including Raoul Wallenberg and Oskar Schindler."
--Q: You have labeled historians who have criticized Pope Pius XII as revisionists. Why?
--Rabbi Dalin: Today there is a new generation of journalists and experts determined to discredit the documented efforts of Pius XII to save the Jews during the Holocaust. This generation is inspired by Rolf Hochhuth´s play "The Vicar," which has no historical value, but levels controversial accusations against this Pope. However, Eugenio Pacelli´s detractors ignore or neglect Pinchas Lapide´s enlightening study.
[Lapide] was consul general of Israel in Milan and met with many Italian Jews who survived the Holocaust. In his work, Lapide documents how Pius XII worked for the salvation of at least 700,000 from the hands of the Nazis. However, according to another estimate, this figure rises to 860,000.
--Q: Why, then, has there been this change in appreciation?
--Rabbi Dalin: I call today´s critics revisionists because they reverse the judgment of history, namely, the recognition given to Pius XII by his contemporaries, among whom is Nobel Prize [winner] Albert Einstein, Chief Rabbi Isaac Herzog of Israel, Prime Ministers Golda Meir and Moshe Sharett; and, in Italy, people like Raffaele Cantoni, who at the time was president of the Italian Union of Jewish Communities. But many articles published at different times in Boston´s Jewish Advocate, The Times of London, and The New York Times can also be perused.
--Q: What did Pope Pacelli do for the Jews?
--Rabbi Dalin: We have much documentation, which shows that in no way did he remain silent. What is more, he spoke out loudly against Hitler and almost everyone saw him as an opponent of the Nazi regime. During the German occupation of Rome, Pius XII secretly instructed the Catholic clergy to use all means to save as many human lives as possible.
In this way, he saved thousands of Italian Jews from deportation. While 80% of European Jews died in those years, 80% of Italian Jews were saved. In Rome alone, 155 convents and monasteries gave refuge to some 5,000 Jews. At any given moment, at least 3,000 were saved in the papal residence of Castel Gandolfo, being freed from deportation to German concentration camps.
For nine months, 60 Jews lived with the Jesuits at the Pontifical Gregorian University, and many others were hidden in the basement of the Biblical Institute. Following Pius XII´s instructions, risking their own lives, many priests and monks made possible the salvation of hundreds of Jewish lives.
--Q: But the Pope never publicly denounced the anti-Semitic laws and persecution of the Jews.
--Rabbi Dalin: His silence was an effective strategy directed to protecting the greatest possible number of Jews from deportation. An explicit and severe denunciation of the Nazis by the Pope would have been an invitation to reprisals, and would have worsened attitudes toward Jews throughout Europe.
Of course one can ask: What could be worse than the extermination of 6 million Jews? The answer is simple and terribly honest: the killing of hundreds of thousands of other Jews. The revisionist critics of Pius XII know that both Jewish leaders as well as Catholic bishops, who came from occupied countries, advised Pacelli not to protest publicly against the atrocities committed by the Nazis.
We have evidence that, when the bishop of Munster wished to pronounce himself against the persecution of the Jews in Germany, the leaders of the Jewish communities of his diocese begged him not to do so, as it would have caused a harsher repression against them.
--Q: Don´t you think that the excommunication of Nazis would have helped?
--Rabbi Dalin: Yes, I would like to think so and deep down I think that at least there should have been an attempt to pronounce a papal excommunication. However, despite these sentiments, the documents suggest that the excommunication of Hitler would have been a merely symbolic gesture.
--Q: Would it not have been better than silence?
--Rabbi Dalin: On the contrary. History teaches that a formal excommunication could have achieved the opposite result. Father Luigi Sturzo and the former chief rabbi of Denmark, for example, were specifically afraid of this. The Nazis themselves interpreted Pius XII´s Christmas 1942 address as a clear condemnation of their regime and a demand in favor of Europe´s Jews. The anger among the Nazis could have elicited catastrophic reactions for the security and fortune of the papacy itself in the years following the War.
A papal condemnation of the Nazis implied the well-founded and diffused suspicion at the time that Hitler would have sought vengeance in the person of the Pope himself, by attacking the Vatican. Rudolph Rahn, the Nazi ambassador in Rome, confirmed the existence of these plans, which he himself helped to forestall.
--Q: In your writings, you propose a new historiography written by Jews on the "Pius XII case." What do you mean?
--Rabbi Dalin: I think the time has arrived on the Jewish side to get to work on a new reconstruction of the relation between Pius XII and the Holocaust. This reconstruction, closer to the facts, namely, of what Pius XII really did for the Jews, would arrive at diametrically opposite conclusions to the gratuitous ones of John Cornwell´s book, "Hitler´s Pope."
Pius XII was not Hitler´s Pope, but the greatest defender that we Jews have ever had, and precisely at the time when we needed it.
This new work of historiography should be based in the judgment that his contemporaries made of the efforts, successes and failures of Pius XII, as well as of the way in which the Jews who survived the Holocaust evaluated (or revaluated) his life and influence in the succeeding decades.
Pope Pacelli was righteous among the nations, who must be recognized for having protected and saved hundreds of thousands of Jews. It is difficult to imagine that so many world Jewish leaders, in such different continents, could have been mistaken or confused when it came to praising the Pope´s conduct during the War. Their gratitude to Pius XII lasted a long time, and it was genuine and profound.
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