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To: Dr. Eckleburg; wmfights
Let me add a few thoughts to Dr. Eckleburg's excellent post.

I believe what is latent in "believers baptism" is the pernicious error of Neonomianism (new law). This is the belief that the new covenant instituted a new law to be obeyed, namely faith. This was the error addressed at the synod of Dordt. It displaces grace (Gospel) with law. In it's practical application, believers baptism then glorifies the believers faith instead of God's grace.

The other major problems of the baptistic mindset is the position of their children in relation to God and the evidence of faith. God has always dealt with families beginning with Adam through Seth and Noah to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. This is truly evidenced by the importance of geneology in Scripture. Children were always considered part of the family of God unless they proved to be ungrateful through their disobedience.

Because of the baptistic tendency toward revivalism and the evidence of faith being an emotional encounter with God one wonders of the children who being raised by godly parents and perhaps always having an implicit faith in God how they must doubt themselves for lacking an emotional experience, if that be the case? I think this is a terrible burden to put on them.

In the Sacraments God accomodates our finite and sinful nature. Because the spiritual realities are beyond our comprehension God conjoins the spiritual reality with the physical manifestation to help our understanding which is a true blessing.

Our difference with the Romanists are that the spiritual reality must always be distinguished from the sign so that we always look toward Christ instead of the sign. But the spiritual reality does accompany the sign when accepted by faith so that by our senses we can understand that reality. The Romanists, otoh, make the sign the reality.

Moreover, when we speak of sacraments, two things are to be considered, the sign and the thing itself. In baptism the sign is water, but the thing is the washing of the soul by the blood of Christ and the mortifying of the flesh. The institution of Christ includes these two things. Now that the sign appears often inefficacious and fruitless, this happens through the abuse of men, which does not take away the nature of the sacrament. Let us then learn not to tear away the thing signified from the sign. We must at the same time beware of another evil, such as prevails among the Papists; for as they distinguish not as they ought between the thing and the sign, they stop at the outward element, and on that fix their hope of salvation. Therefore the sight of the water takes away their thoughts from the blood of Christ and the power of the Spirit. They do not regard Christ as the only author of all the blessings therein offered to us; they transfer the glory of his death to the water, they tie the secret power of the Spirit to the visible sign.

Calvin's Commentaries, 1st Peter


657 posted on 03/02/2008 12:29:12 PM PST by the_conscience ('The human mind is a perpetual forge of idols'.)
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To: the_conscience
Calvin's Commentaries, 1st Peter

Traditions of men. How odd.

658 posted on 03/02/2008 12:34:39 PM PST by Petronski (Nice job, Hillary. Now go home and get your shine box.)
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To: the_conscience; Dr. Eckleburg
I believe what is latent in "believers baptism" is the pernicious error of Neonomianism (new law). This is the belief that the new covenant instituted a new law to be obeyed, namely faith. This was the error addressed at the synod of Dordt. It displaces grace (Gospel) with law. In it's practical application, believers baptism then glorifies the believers faith instead of God's grace.

We are save by Grace Alone through Faith Alone in Jesus Christ Alone. If this puts me in conflict with my reformed brethren than so be it.

I think you may be failing to see the forest for the trees. I am not the one claiming Grace is imparted to a Christian by any means other than Faith. It is those that practice infant Baptism that have claimed Grace is bestowed by it.

675 posted on 03/02/2008 1:28:01 PM PST by wmfights (Believe - THE GOSPEL - and be saved)
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To: the_conscience; wmfights
Thank you for that terrific post. Sometimes it's difficult to articulate these points, and you've done that perfectly.

Because of the baptistic tendency toward revivalism and the evidence of faith being an emotional encounter with God one wonders of the children who being raised by godly parents and perhaps always having an implicit faith in God how they must doubt themselves for lacking an emotional experience, if that be the case? I think this is a terrible burden to put on them.

Exactly. Which is why adult baptism fits so much more neatly into the Arminian construct than the reformed one.

I tell my children they are God's creation and members of God's family. I tell them God loves them without qualification and that He will never leave them and that every step they take is by and for and through Jesus Christ alone.

Am I 100% certain of the truth of this statement? No, because none of us knows for certain the destiny of anyone but ourselves. But God commanded that I give my children this total assurance that Christ died for their sins and rose to prove it true. God willing, my children are among His children.

Moreover, when we speak of sacraments, two things are to be considered, the sign and the thing itself. In baptism the sign is water, but the thing is the washing of the soul by the blood of Christ and the mortifying of the flesh. The institution of Christ includes these two things. Now that the sign appears often inefficacious and fruitless, this happens through the abuse of men, which does not take away the nature of the sacrament. Let us then learn not to tear away the thing signified from the sign. We must at the same time beware of another evil, such as prevails among the Papists; for as they distinguish not as they ought between the thing and the sign, they stop at the outward element, and on that fix their hope of salvation. Therefore the sight of the water takes away their thoughts from the blood of Christ and the power of the Spirit. They do not regard Christ as the only author of all the blessings therein offered to us; they transfer the glory of his death to the water, they tie the secret power of the Spirit to the visible sign. -- Calvin's Commentaries, 1st Peter

AMEN! Grace alone.

692 posted on 03/02/2008 2:51:45 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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