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To: phatus maximus; 1000 silverlings; FourtySeven; wmfights; Dr. Eckleburg; Claud
S:“Jewish baby boys were all circumcised at 8 days, but they still had other requirements put on them and the concept of an “age of responsibility” comes from the idea that they, both boys and girls, achieve personhood at about 12 years old.

PM:Is it your contention then that infant baptism is not a continuance of this practice, a spiritual circumcision, completed by the Holy Spirit to separate those from who are not spiritually circumcised?

It may not be popular to say since so many Christian Churches do practice infant Baptism, but Jesus ended the Old Covenant. We are told we must believe in Jesus in order to be saved. We are told to believe first and then be baptized. Babies do not have the capacity to believe.

If you think the Holy Spirit indwells a non believer please show me the Scripture.

253 posted on 02/28/2008 9:38:21 PM PST by wmfights (Believe - THE GOSPEL - and be saved)
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To: Forest Keeper; irishtenor

Meant to ping you to this discussion.


254 posted on 02/28/2008 9:39:33 PM PST by wmfights (Believe - THE GOSPEL - and be saved)
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To: wmfights

Respectfully -

The Holy Spirit knows who are His. With that being said I cannot show you scripture (and I am a Lutheran by the way) that states that the Holy Spirit indwells in a nonbeliever however what the totality of scripture tells us is that baptism marks us as seperated as God’s own dear child.

There is absolutely NOTHING that prohibits this for infants in scripture. There is not a requirement to believe before we are baptized. That is a false premise. If it were true then it’s basic starting point is that we are then telling God that He can now allow us into His family because we’re ready. That most definitely is not how it works. We are brought to God thru the Spirit not by our choice as if He needed us to do that for Him.

Question: By your reasoning a child who dies before say 2-4 years old has no chance of salvation as they are incapable of believing in Christ’s sacrifice, is that correct? Do you contend the Holy Spirit does not indwell in these children? What about severly handicapped individuals, they often cannot truly understand and hence believe, are they not able to be baptized? Please elaborate how salvation works for children/the severly disabled as it’s quite clear there would have to be a seperate set of requirements.


255 posted on 02/28/2008 9:57:01 PM PST by phatus maximus (John 6:29...Learn it, love it, live it...)
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To: wmfights

Good points, wf.


394 posted on 02/29/2008 1:35:38 PM PST by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL.)
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