ROMAN CATHOLICISM: A DIFFERENT GOSPEL

Apprising Ministries ^ | January 16, 2008 | Ken Silva

[Manfred the Wonder Dawg]

ROMAN CATHOLICISM: A DIFFERENT GOSPEL

In their lust for unity the Emergent Church and post-evangelical “Protestants” are right now embracing the Roman Catholic Church as another Christian denomination. But the issue is simple: If, as taught the Church of Rome, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without “the new birth in baptism” then we are now in hopeless contradiction with the Gospel contained in Holy Scripture.

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. (Galatians 1:8)

Speaking The Truth In Love

Let me make this as clear as I possibly can for the Roman Catholics who may read this work in Christ from Apprising Ministries. I personally am former member of the Church of Rome and care very deeply about those, such as the majority of my own family line, who are trapped in this apostate man-made system of religion known as Roman Catholicism. I also fully realize that what I say may sound “unloving” and possibly even “harsh.” However, there is just nothing that I can do about that. By not telling the Truth we aren’t doing anyone a service.

[FourtySeven]

I'm still shocked that someone can post a thread and bash the Catholic religion right in the title, and get away with it. Makes me look at FR in a new way.

Not that I'm defending the bashing of Catholicism in any way (I'm Catholic!), the reason this can be done, as far as I understand it, is because of your previous question about "open" or "closed" threads. There are two kinds of threads in the Religion Forum, one, where anything but personal attacks on another FReeper is permitted, and another, called "devotional" threads where no bashing of any kind is allowed. That is, if an anti-Catholic came into a Catholic Devotional thread and started talking like they do on the open threads, then they would be reprimanded and/or suspended/banned.

As far as I understand it, this system seems to be the only way to continue to have discussions (as free as possible) about different faiths, as well as have a place where one can, if one wishes, simply participate in devotional activities where no fighting is allowed. IOW, it's a compromise.

But the RM could and does explain it better. I think the RM's profile page has a detailed explanation of all these things too.

[1000 silverlings]

I believe that it’s incorrect to use the term “baptism” as baptism is complete immersion. Nor can the child make a declaration of faith. More like what you have is a dedication, the parents promising to raise the child for the Lord. As to the Hs, again, He does what He wills, not what man wills.

[Rutles4Ever]

Formality.. God already layed hands on Saul..

No He didn't. He gave Paul an order to visit Ananias.

Mattias was a mistake(they were young and newbies).. There should be 12 apostles God replaced Judas.. with Saul..

Uhhhh.... what?

Thats ridiculous.. and a non sequiter..

Hardly. Prove first that Apostleship can't be handed down, since that's your declaration.

[mockingbyrd]

When I grow up I want to be like you!

[OLD REGGIE]

Luther and his lieutenants were devious in their approach to the council. As for fear, they made good use of their princely protectors. They were helped by the fact that the pope didn’t want a council inside of Germany, such was HIS mistrust of the emperor. The emperor was the man in the middle, since Melancthon masked Lutheran doctrine in language that made it seem it was closer to Catholic doctrine than it was. That changed as time wore on. After the Council began, Catholic reformers also took the proceedings in a direct that diverged from Erasmian notions. The end result was two parties very widely separated, with the Lutherans closer to the Reformed opinion.

LUTHER BAD!

CHURCH GOOD!

HUS BAD!

CHURCH GOOD!

IT WAS ALL THE FAULT OF THE CIVIL GOVERNMENT!

[Rutles4Ever]

Seems to be a regular tactic of RCC folk: whine to the moderator when your beliefs are challenged.

We're not whining about having our beliefs challenged, we're whining about having our collective religious IQ's lowered significantly by this kind of hilarity masquerading as scholarship or enlightenment. Nevermind the piece you posted - I've seen greater intellect published on toilet paper, so it's not of any consequence to those of us who cling to RCC traditions.

If non-Catholics want to post crap, go ahead. At the end of the day, it's just a crap post.

[Rutles4Ever]

I’ve found the system on FR to be generally fair. I’ve had some exceptional occasions of dismay at some of the actions of the RM, but there’s absolutely nothing for those of us to fear from anything that can be posted here. Emotional reactions are easy to come by, but our Church doesn’t hang in the balance over someone’s personal interpretation of Scripture.

I generally enjoy these debates because it exercises the soul and solidifies my faith even more. The trick is not to take it personally or dish it out personally. I can be fairly acerbic, but it’s not directed at “so and so”, but what “so and so” has presented as the truth.

[Mad Dawg]

There are those close to me who maintain that being like me and growing up have nothing to do with one another.

Just sayin' ...

(But thanks.)

( Maybe I should give classes in snotty letter writing?)

It's the funniest thing: I haven't yet received an answer! Maybe his email server is down. You can bet I'll let this thread know when I do hear from him. Surely someone as devoted to the truth as this gentleman claims to be will be writing soon to thank me for advising him or his error, right?

Right?

[OLD REGGIE]

I don’t know about Jim but I have never liked the Religious forum.Some prayers-mostly fights.I say eliminate it.

I don't like caucus threads. Too much self praise and back patting. I say eliminate it.

While we're at it let's eliminate all topics on the internet which offend you.

Sacrasm intended.

[hosepipe]

[ Hardly. Prove first that Apostleship can't be handed down, since that's your declaration. ]

Apostle-ship is not an Office its a word describing being "sent" with a message.. by man or God.. As, by the way, we all are.. We are ALL apostles.. "Pick up YOUR cross and follow me"-Jesus.. ALL are preaching a message more by what we do than what we say.. but also by what we say..

YES YOU are an apostle.. you have a message to others in your life.. and are preaching it.. MEE TOO..

Jesus handed down apostle ship to all of us.. if indeed you are a member of his family.. So in that sense apostleship is handed down.. Selecting ONE human on earth to be "THE" apostle is silly.. however that one is an apostle too.. Did I say the Pope was an Apostle?.. Shazaam, I guess I did.. WEL,, God v\bless him, and you too.. preach on dear apostle.. preach it.. For we all will be held accountable for what we preach.. for good or ill.. "the flesh is weak but the spirit gives life"..

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so very much for sharing your insights and exhortations!

Indeed, we Christians are all witnesses of Christ - for good or ill - in our words and deeds.

Maranatha, Jesus!!!

[wmfights]

So if you're keen on holding that view, then you must hold all of those Christians teach a different Gospel as well.

Fair enough. It's a discussion not a trial where someone is put to death for disagreeing.

It does establish that the title to the article is not incorrect. It could have included other churches that believe the Holy Spirit indwells at baptism rather than upon Faith, but the title is not wrong.

Even though there are no explicit infant Baptisms in Scripture, they aren't explicitly forbidden either. So at most we can say Scripture is neutral.

Sure just as it is neutral about a whole bunch of teachings. ;-)

BTW, you can find the Trinity in Scripture.

[Rutles4Ever]

Apostle-ship is not an Office its a word describing being "sent" with a message.. by man or God.. As, by the way, we all are.. We are ALL apostles..

According to Scripture, it's most definitely an office:

Acts 1:20

For it is written in the book of Psalms, `Let his
habitation become desolate,
and let there be no one to live in it';
and `His office let another take.'

Timothy 1:3

"A faithful saying: if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work."

The Apostles - the Twelve, then Matthias and Paul - were explicitly differentiated from the 72 disciples sent out by Jesus. They were referred to by different title: Apostle or Disciple.

Selecting ONE human on earth to be "THE" apostle is silly..

We will have to disagree, given the Church's interpretation of the naming of Peter and the handing of the keys to the kingdom.

[al_c]

No. Nor do we invent glorious stories of his reign.

How do generations learn about previous generations? Only through history books? Nothing orally passed down through family or friends? Why should Christianity be different? Do you think God just stopped everything once the bible was written and said, "That's all, folks!"?

[blue-duncan]

“What is your church’s position on unbaptized babies/infants who die?”

“We ARE doing...baptizing!”

No, we are speculating.

[Rutles4Ever]

BTW, you can find the Trinity in Scripture.

The components are present (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit), but the cottage industry of heresy revolving exactly around the essence and composition of the Trinity demonstrates that Scripture itself does not explicitly convey the consubstantial nature of the Three Persons, sharing One and the same Substance. The relationship of Father and Son is the only thing explicit, with the Holy Spirit as a "helper", somehow tied to the other two. The word "Trinity" comes from "tri-unity" - a concept feverishly opposed by Arius, Macedonius, the Pneumatachi, the semi-Araians, Gilbert of Poitiers, etc., and not cast in stone until Nicaea.

[wmfights]

I believe that it’s incorrect to use the term “baptism” as baptism is complete immersion. Nor can the child make a declaration of faith.

FWIW, I agree.

Infant baptisms are pretty nice events. The family is bringing their child into their church and the baby is becoming a part of a Christian community. Though, the idea that the Holy Spirit indwells the baby prior to Faith is not consistent with Scripture.