Posted on 02/23/2008 2:46:18 AM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg
Should Mary be declared co-redemptrix?
One of the items posted by the Roman Catholic Zenit News Agency for Monday 11 February 2008 read as follows –
Cardinals Hoping for a 5th Marian Dogma To Declare Mary as Mother of Humanity
ROME, FEBRUARY. 11, 2008 (Zenit.org).- Five cardinals have sent a letter inviting prelates worldwide to join them in petitioning Benedict XVI to declare a fifth Marian dogma they said would "proclaim the full Christian truth about Mary."The text, released last week, includes the petition that asks the Pope to proclaim Mary as "the Spiritual Mother of All Humanity, the co-redemptrix with Jesus the redeemer, mediatrix of all graces with Jesus the one mediator, and advocate with Jesus Christ on behalf of the human race"… The petition states: "We believe the time opportune for a solemn definition of clarification regarding the constant teaching of the Church concerning the Mother of the Redeemer and her unique cooperation in the work of Redemption, as well as her subsequent roles in the distribution of grace and intercession for the human family"… The text adds that the move would be "the ultimate expression of doctrinal clarity at the service of our Christian and non-Christian brothers and sisters who are not in communion with Rome"… The statement added, "This initiative also intends to start an in-depth worldwide dialogue on Mary's role in salvation for our time”… Cardinal Aponte Martínez, one of the cardinal co-patrons said: "I believe the time is now for the papal definition of the relationship of the Mother of Jesus to the each one of us, her earthly children, in her roles as co-redemptrix, mediatrix of all graces and advocate.
Back in 1998 there were similar Roman Catholic groundswells of opinion to have the then Pope John Paul II issue the very same dogmatic declaration. I was invited to participate in a Channel 5 “Crossfire” televised debate on the subject with a Jesuit Priest, Richard Foley who was very much in favour of the idea and you can listen to an audio version [28 minutes] of the debate by going to this link http://www.takeheed.co.uk/ You will find the debate listed as London 1998: Debate: Should Mary be declared co-redemptrix? under the REAL AUDIO section.
Cecil Andrews – ‘Take Heed’ Ministries – 12 February 2008
If ye have the stomach for it, the original Zenit article, in English, is here:
http://zenit.org/article-21749?l=english
“If ye have the stomach for it, the original Zenit article, in English, is here:”
The hatred and bigotry of anti-Catholics never ceases to amaze me.
Why not just call her goddess and get it over with?
Excellent question! Would that vlad would answer it. He think a love for the Truth is hatred for the RCC. It’s actually hatred for false doctrine.
Put her face (who knows what she looked like?) on a tortilla and we all see that she is “venerated” as a goddess.
I was researching this topic anyhow and found this, from Andrew Miller’s “Church History”, chapter 23:
Mary-Worship
The worship of the Virgin Mary originally sprang from the ascetic spirit which became so prevalent in the fourth century. Before this period, there is no trace of the worship of Mary. About the same time — the close of the fourth century — it was discovered and circulated that there were in the temple at Jerusalem virgins consecrated to God, among whom Mary grew up in vows of perpetual virginity. This new doctrine led to the veneration of Mary as the very ideal of the celibate state, and sanctioned the profession of religious chastity. Soon after this it became customary to apply to the virgin the appellation, “Mother of God;” which gave rise to the Nestorian controversy. But, in spite of all opposition, Mary-worship prevailed; and, in the fifth century, images and beautiful paintings of the virgin, holding the infant Jesus in her arms were placed in all the churches. Thus introduced she rapidly rose into an object of direct worship; and Mariolatry became the ruling passion of the Romish church. The daily office for Mary, and the days and festivals which had been dedicated to her honour, were confirmed by Urban II. in the Council of Clermont, A.D. 1095.
Reverence for the blessed virgin was now an established doctrine and practice in the church of Rome, and has so continued down to the present day. Romanists may affect to deny that they honour Mary with the worship due to God only, but in their books of devotion prayers to the virgin occupy a prominent place. No prayer, we believe, is in more constant use than the “Aye Maria,” or “Hail Mary,” which, after quoting a passage from the salutation of the angel Gabriel to the virgin, adds these words, “Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now, and in the hour of death, Amen.” Again, in another prayer, the virgin is thus addressed, “We fly to thy patronage, O holy Mother of God, despise not our petitions in our necessities, but deliver us from all dangers, O ever glorious and blessed Virgin.” Another runs thus, “Hail, holy Queen, Mother of mercy, our life, our sweetness, and our hope! to thee we cry, poor banished sons of Eve, to thee we send up our sighs, mourning, and weeping in this valley of tears, turn, then, most gracious advocate, thine eyes of mercy towards us,” etc. She is also called, “Ark of the Covenant,” “Gate of heaven,” “Morning Star,” “Refuge of sinners,” and many other such terms, which plainly show the idolatrous place which Mary occupies in the devotions of the Romish church.*
{*For details see “Mariolatry,” Gardner’s Faiths of the World, vol. 2, p. 372. Butler’s Lives of the Saints, October 1-the great Roman Catholic book on this subject.}
The Rosary, that is, a series of prayers, and a string of beads by which they are counted — consists of fifteen decades. Each decade contains ten Ave Marias, marked by small beads, preceded by a Pater Noster, marked by a larger bead, and concluded by a Gloria Patri. The Romish Breviary also, the great universal book of devotion, of which every priest must read a portion each day in private under pain of mortal sin, uses the following strong language as to the virgin: “If the winds of temptation arise, if thou run upon the rocks of tribulation, look to the star, call upon Mary. If thou art tossed on the waves of pride, of ambition, of distraction, of envy, look to the star, call upon Mary. If anger or avarice, or the temptation of the flesh toss the bark of thy mind, look to Mary. If disturbed with the greatness of thy sins, troubled at the defilement of thy conscience, affrighted at the horrors of the judgment, thou beginnest to be swallowed up in the gulf of sadness, the abyss of despair, think upon Mary — in dangers, in difficulties, in doubts, think upon Mary, invoke Mary.” So completely did the worship of Mary become the worship of Christendom, that every cathedral, almost every spacious church, had its “Chapel of our Lady.”
It is surely more than evident from these quotations, that Mary is addressed as not only an intercessor with her Son but the first and highest object of worship. And these are calm and sober specimens compared with the wild language of a chivalrous adoration, which is to be found in hymns, psalters, and breviaries. The attributes of Godhead are assigned to her, and she is represented as the Queen of Heaven, and sitting between cherubim and seraphim. The dogma of the Immaculate Conception was the natural result of this growing adoration of Mary. It has been re-asserted as an article of faith in the Romish church by the present pope and generally accepted.
There was nothing hateful in the article...What was posted are the positions your religion floods it's members with...
Why don't you discuss the issue instead of calling names??? What's your feeling about elevating Mary to an even higher position than she now holds in your religion???
Romanists may affect to deny that they honour Mary with the worship due to God only...
It's undeniable that the Catholic Church worships Mary, despite their vehement contention that they only "ask" her to pray for them. Pray? The voluminous prayers referenced ask her to DO what only God can do, with many of the the attributes of God.
Thanks for your note.
Yes, the denial of what happens around the world is grievous. The name calling by RCC watchdogs is an honor:
Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad:
You wrote:
“There was nothing hateful in the article...What was posted are the positions your religion floods it’s members with...”
Incorrect. There is no “flood” on Catholics about this issue from anyone in the Church. Also, the line I cited clearly has an anti-Catholic bias behind it.
“Why don’t you discuss the issue instead of calling names???”
I didn’t resort to name calling. Anti-Catholics can be labeled fairly as anti-Catholics. Also, there is no issue per se simply because the article only highlights actions and not doctrines. If you disagree with the actions, I really don’t care. If you disagree with the doctrines, I really don’t care. Using phrases like what I cited, however, seems excessive to say the least.
“What’s your feeling about elevating Mary to an even higher position than she now holds in your religion???”
1) No on can elevate Mary. There is no such process or possibility. Mary simply is who she is. Onlu God made her what she is with His grace. No man has anything to do with it. Your premise is based on a fantasy of your own creation.
2) My religion is orthodox Christianity - commonly known as the Catholic faith. Mary is important to all orthodox Christians.
3) I have no feelings whatsoever about doctrines. Only fools have feelings about doctrines, dogmas, doctrinal definitions, etc. Doctrines are teachings. They are not emotions or moods or colors or favorite foods. Those things routinely can be chosen or influenced by emotions. Doctrines cannot be. Do you rely on feelings to sort out doctrines? We call such a tendency ‘Protestantism’.
Anybody who can magically make her image appear on tortillas is at LEAST a goddess.
The obsession with Mary is yet another reason not to jump the Tiber.
If Catholics would just read their Bibles, they would know their dogma contradicts Christ Himself who explained who His true mother and brothers were...
And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it." -- Luke 8:20-21"And it was told him by certain which said, Thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to see thee.
Amen.
Love that word....conjures up images of reaching for the paper towel dispenser and getting bitten by a snake concealed by a towel and placed by some practical joker.
It's a Di-spens-a-Trix.
LOL.
And not for kids. 8~)
you both are on a roll!
lol
keeper
You may now return to posting your nonsense.
DispensatrixLove that word....conjures up images of reaching for the paper towel dispenser and getting bitten by a snake concealed by a towel and placed by some practical joker.
Or something to do with the end times. Accent on the penult a.
Marian devotion predates the legalization of Christianity by at least 150 years.
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