FLDS Parents Could Face Charges for Abandoning their "Lost Boys"

KCPW News ^ | February 14, 2008

[Zakeet]

They're called the "Lost Boys," the teenagers kicked out of their homes and communities by leaders of the polygamist Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints to ensure there's an ample supply of single, young women who will one day become plural wives. Representative Lorie Fowlke (R-Orem), is running a bill to make this abandonment a felony.

"Estimates are that we've had more than 1,000 children - primarily in southern Utah - thrown out of their homes," Fowlke says. "What we were trying to do with this bill is criminalize this behavior and send a message to this community that they can't just throw away their children."

H.B. 23 adds child abandonment to the definition of child abuse, and makes it a felony crime. It also adds an enhancement if a parent or organization benefits from the child's abandonment to further an illegal enterprise, such as polygamy. This is the case with the FLDS church, says Roger Hoole, a lawyer who represents some of the displaced young men and sits on the board for the Utah Association for Justice. He says the church benefits from kicking out young men who would compete for plural wives. This, he says, has devastating consequences.

"There's a huge impact that's coming, like a tsunami, that's going to hit the state of Utah, when these boys get a little older and realize what has happened to them and get angry," Hoole says. "There's a real problem here."

Fowlke's bill gained unanimous support in a Senate committee this morning, and now heads to the full Senate for consideration.

[Elsie]

Elsie, he got your number! You’re slipping, fella.

Hey!

I gots a life; too!

[MHGinTN]

Please hear me, dear Lady. This is more important than anything these threads attempt. I see no consequence to you for disagreeing with me, but Truth is not to be manipulated for your own designs. 'Metanoia' (turning around; turning from sin, from the sin nature director leading you to ultimate destruction) comes before Salvation. 'Metanoia' does not earn Salvation. 'Metanoia' is the turning from self-reliance for deliverance from God's wrath against sin, to 'pistis', faith that the 'Soter' (Deliverer) will do as He promises to do. [I inserted the Greek terms so you can do a word search and confirm the efficacy of the Truth, apart from any 'denomination'.]

If you seek an escape clause by which you may 'reject the Bible's message as not clear to you', you will incur God's wrath because you will have turned away from the ONLY means by which you may be Saved.

The Bible has a unique property not found in any other book or religious writing ... God authored it through various people, and He resonates His Truth in the Bible when you read seeking Him, for He is a rewarder of those who dilligently seek Him and you can seek Him in His Word.

Therefore, regardless of which sect of Christianity you hear the Gospel 'through', if you faithe in God's Grace in Christ, you will be Born Again.

[Elsie]

Sounds great in theory, but as one can see, in practice it is not quite that easy...

So true; for ALL of us come to 'religion' with some kind of information already imprinted on our brain.

(Maybe Hubbard is right after all!)

[greyfoxx39]

;)

[Elsie]

Mary either remained a virgin after the birth of Christ or she did not...

And that's what happens when you MIX the BIBLe with something else.

(No; I will NOT be discussing C vs P differences in this thread.)

[Elsie]

Not quite sure how that related to anything, but thanks for bringing up that movie...

The pleasure is mine; though another 30-45 minutes went by as I YouTubed (can I use that as a verb?) various snippets from it.

---

 

 

We thought....

 

you wuz...

a TOAD!

[greyfoxx39]

Are we not all sinners at one time or another is that news to you?

Judging sin is up to the Lord, not to another FReeper.

[Elsie]

...what you referenced me to, the matter of the ‘rock’, was interesting...

 

ARRGH!!!

 

I wasn't going to do it!

 

 

Is Peter the 'rock'?

 

---

NIV Matthew 4:18-19
 18.  As Jesus was walking beside the Sea of Galilee, he saw two brothers, Simon called Peter and his brother Andrew. They were casting a net into the lake, for they were fishermen.
 19.  "Come, follow me," Jesus said, "and I will make you fishers of men."

 

NIV Matthew 8:14
 14.  When Jesus came into Peter's house, he saw Peter's mother-in-law lying in bed with a fever.

 

NIV Matthew 10:1-2
 1.  He called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out evil  spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.
 2.  These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John;

 

NIV Matthew 14:28-31
 28.  "Lord, if it's you," Peter replied, "tell me to come to you on the water."
 29.  "Come," he said.   Then Peter got down out of the boat, walked on the water and came toward Jesus.
 30.  But when he saw the wind, he was afraid and, beginning to sink, cried out, "Lord, save me!"
 31.  Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and caught him. "You of little faith," he said, "why did you doubt?"

 

NIV Matthew 15:13-16
 13.  He replied, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots.
 14.  Leave them; they are blind guides.  If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit."
 15.  Peter said, "Explain the parable to us."
 16.  "Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them.

 

---

As you can see, Simon was already known as 'Peter'

BEFORE the following verses came along.....

---

NIV Matthew 16:13-18
 13.  When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?"
 14.  They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
 15.  "But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"
 16.  Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ,  the Son of the living God."
 17.  Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.
 18.  And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

 19.  I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be  bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

---

NIV 1 Corinthians 10:4
 4.  and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.

 

NIV Luke 6:48
 48.  He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built.

 

NIV Romans 9:33
 33.  As it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

 

 

 

NIV 1 Peter 2:4-8
 4.  As you come to him, the living Stone--rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him--
 5.  you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
 6.  For in Scripture it says: "See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."
 7.  Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, "The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone, "
 8.  and, "A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall." They stumble because they disobey the message--which is also what they were destined for.

---

But, since there WAS no NT at the time Christ spoke to Peter, just what DID Peter and the rest of the Disciples know about ROCKS???

---

 

NIV Genesis 49:24-25
24.  But his bow remained steady, his strong arms stayed limber, because of the hand of the Mighty One of Jacob, because of the Shepherd, the Rock of Israel,
 25.  because of your father's God, who helps you, because of the Almighty,  who blesses you with blessings of the heavens above, blessings of the deep that lies below, blessings of the breast and womb.

 

NIV Numbers 20:8
 8.  "Take the staff, and you and your brother Aaron gather the assembly together. Speak to that rock before their eyes and it will pour out its water. You will bring water out of the rock for the community so they and their livestock can drink."

 

NIV Deuteronomy 32:4
 4.  He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.

 

NIV Deuteronomy 32:15
 15.  Jeshurun  grew fat and kicked; filled with food, he became heavy and sleek. He abandoned the God who made him and rejected the Rock his Savior.

 

NIV Deuteronomy 32:18
 18.  You deserted the Rock, who fathered you; you forgot the God who gave you birth.

 

NIV Deuteronomy 32:30-31
 30.  How could one man chase a thousand, or two put ten thousand to flight, unless their Rock had sold them, unless the LORD had given them up?
 31.  For their rock is not like our Rock, as even our enemies concede.

 

NIV 1 Samuel 2:2
 2.  "There is no one holy  like the LORD; there is no one besides you; there is no Rock like our God.

 

NIV 2 Samuel 22:2-3
 2.  He said: "The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer;
 3.  my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield and the horn  of my salvation. He is my stronghold, my refuge and my savior-- from violent men you save me.

 

NIV 2 Samuel 22:32
 32.  For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God?

 

NIV 2 Samuel 22:47
 47.  "The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God, the Rock, my Savior!

 

NIV 2 Samuel 23:3-4
 3.  The God of Israel spoke, the Rock of Israel said to me: `When one rules over men in righteousness, when he rules in the fear of God,
 4.  he is like the light of morning at sunrise on a cloudless morning, like the brightness after rain that brings the grass from the earth.'

 

NIV Psalms 18:2
 2.  The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge. He is my shield and the horn  of my salvation, my stronghold.

 

NIV Psalms 18:31
 31.  For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God?

 

NIV Psalms 18:46
 46.  The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God my Savior!

 

NIV Psalms 19:14
 14.  May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be pleasing in your sight, O LORD, my Rock and my Redeemer.

 

NIV Psalms 28:1

 

 1.  To you I call, O LORD my Rock; do not turn a deaf ear to me. For if you remain silent, I will be like those who have gone down to the pit.

 

NIV Psalms 31:2-3
 2.  Turn your ear to me, come quickly to my rescue; be my rock of refuge, a strong fortress to save me.
 3.  Since you are my rock and my fortress, for the sake of your name lead and guide me.

 

NIV Psalms 42:9
 9.  I say to God my Rock, "Why have you forgotten me? Why must I go about mourning, oppressed by the enemy?"

 

NIV Psalms 62:2
 2.  He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will never be shaken.

 

NIV Psalms 62:6
 6.  He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will not be shaken.

 

NIV Psalms 62:7
 7.  My salvation and my honor depend on God ; he is my mighty rock, my refuge.

 

NIV Psalms 71:3
 3.  Be my rock of refuge, to which I can always go; give the command to save me, for you are my rock and my fortress.

 

NIV Psalms 78:35
 35.  They remembered that God was their Rock, that God Most High was their Redeemer.

 

NIV Psalms 89:26
 26.  He will call out to me, `You are my Father, my God, the Rock my Savior.'

 

NIV Psalms 92:14-15
 14.  They will still bear fruit in old age, they will stay fresh and green,
 15.  proclaiming, "The LORD is upright; he is my Rock, and there is no wickedness in him."

 

NIV Psalms 95:1
 1.  Come, let us sing for joy to the LORD; let us shout aloud to the Rock of our salvation.

 

NIV Psalms 144:1
 1.  Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle.

 

NIV Isaiah 17:10
 10.  You have forgotten God your Savior; you have not remembered the Rock, your fortress.

 

NIV Isaiah 26:4
 4.  Trust in the LORD forever, for the LORD, the LORD, is the Rock eternal.

 

NIV Isaiah 30:29
29.  And you will sing as on the night you celebrate a holy festival; your hearts will rejoice as when people go up with flutes to the mountain of the LORD, to the Rock of Israel.

 

NIV Isaiah 44:8
 8.  Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one." 

 

NIV Habakkuk 1:12
 12.  O LORD, are you not from everlasting? My God, my Holy One, we will not die. O LORD, you have appointed them to execute judgment; O Rock, you have ordained them to punish.

---

.....No other rock.............

 

And now you know the Biblical position!

[greyfoxx39]

What all is encompassed by "witchcraft," exactly, according to God's Word?

You'll have to ask resty...she is the resident expert on the "natural man" and the sins therof.

[Old Mountain man]

If “they” hide stuff, how do you find it?

[Elsie]

Well, I guess if you are at the top of your food chain, you can do what ever you want in the name of gods.

The Gods Must Be Crazy 1980

Another film that starts slow then grabs you!

[MHGinTN]

I would put peepstone divination in that category.

[Elsie]

At least, that is my take on it.

And, he is bona fide!

[restornu]

So, are you saying that those FReepers you accuse of being "natural man" are guilty of all these sins, while you yourself are not? This appears to be a pretty nasty insult to those you keep calling the "natural man".

There are different ways man is move from being centered in the Lord.

1- Should it really be an insult or a reminder to one, if one intentionally changes or spins ANOTHERS words to detract from the truth of the statement?

That is also natural man behavior.

2- A child of God can get caught up in the moment and revert back to the natural man ways by being sarcastic or ulgy to their fellow man.

3- BTW we have someone on the board every day who take pleasure in posting hateful things, variance, revellings, lampooning the LDS for amusment of others.

The other things on the list is not known unless one brags on line!:)

[MHGinTN]

You’re into romantic comedies, eh? Ever seen ‘Dragonfly’? Not a comedy but a really good film from Kevin Costner.

[Elsie]

At least I didn’t spell it LIONS!

[ansel12]

“Murray provides an answer, that is more satisfying to many people...and his answer would be, that Cain married one of the offspring of the people that God created on the 6th day of creation, and since Cain was the product of Adam and Eve, created on the 8th day of creation, “

---

This is weird, but your posts about Murray seem to go from passionate selling of him to a withdrawal from deep knowledge of him, where you imply that he is just something you recently stumbled across.

Here is a somewhat recent post of yours where you write that you barely know who he is, you don’t even know his first name, even though for more than a half a year many of your posts showed you to be a huge and dedicated fan of his using his first name always when addressing him.

You seem to want to sell him to FR but in an under the radar way, here is that more recent post where you seem to barely know who the guy is.

>”Just for my own information, I was wondering if you are someone who follows, or at least subscribes to many of the views of a Rev. Murray...I cannot remember his first name, tho his sons name is Dennis...I may have asked you this before, if so, I apologize...
But I find many of your views, to coincide exactly with Rev. Murrays beliefs concerning the Bible...”<

---

Here is what one web site says that Rev. Arnold Murray teaches about Adam an Eve and the eighth day of creation:

THE IMPLICIT RACISM OF ARNOLD MURRAY

Anglo-Israel Origins

Mr. Murray teaches Anglo-Israelism which believes that Anglo-Saxons are the chosen race, and America and Great Britain are the lost tribes of the children of Israel. Murray claims that the northern ten tribes of Israel are the “the same tribes that later went north and populated Europe and North America.” (The Shepherd’s Chapel newsletter #148, 2-91) According to the theology of Anglo-Israelism, other races are inferior to whites, and usually the blacks and Jewish race are particularly stigmatized. Murray, on the other hand, says that he respects blacks and other races. However, he believes these races were the Adam created on the sixth day of creation in Genesis 1, while the Anglo-Saxons were another Adam created on the eighth day of creation based on his interpretation of Genesis 2. Hence, there is a definite distinction between whites and non-whites. Arnold Murray also promotes the literature of other Anglo-Israelism teachers. The Shepherd’s Chapel Book List, for instance, offers materials by E. Raymond Cap. And J.H. Allen.

http://www.mission.org/jesuspeople/arnmuray.htm

[MHGinTN]

How would I ‘knwo’, I only take a spell here.

[Elsie]

It is shorthand for Delphi User, another active Mormonism apologists at FR using reems of documents from FAIR.LDS.

 

fairlds is not an official arm of the LDS religion.

 

 

---

---

 

 

	...they were numbered among the people of the church of Christ; and their names were taken, that they might be remembered and nourished by the good word of God,...to keep them continually watchful unto prayer, relying alone upon the merits of Christ, who was the author and the finisher of their faith. Moroni 6:4

 

 

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FAIR is not owned, controlled by or affiliated with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. All research and opinions provided on this site are the sole responsibility of FAIR, and should not be interpreted as official statements of LDS doctrine, belief or practice.

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[restornu]

Are we not all sinners at one time or another is that news to you?

Judging sin is up to the Lord, not to another FReeper.

****

Not when they are to rent, or turning your words on you, or posting other obvious telltail things.