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Locked on 03/03/2008 9:42:54 AM PST by Religion Moderator, reason:
Childish behavior |
Posted on 02/22/2008 9:11:12 AM PST by Zakeet
They're called the "Lost Boys," the teenagers kicked out of their homes and communities by leaders of the polygamist Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints to ensure there's an ample supply of single, young women who will one day become plural wives. Representative Lorie Fowlke (R-Orem), is running a bill to make this abandonment a felony.
"Estimates are that we've had more than 1,000 children - primarily in southern Utah - thrown out of their homes," Fowlke says. "What we were trying to do with this bill is criminalize this behavior and send a message to this community that they can't just throw away their children."
H.B. 23 adds child abandonment to the definition of child abuse, and makes it a felony crime. It also adds an enhancement if a parent or organization benefits from the child's abandonment to further an illegal enterprise, such as polygamy. This is the case with the FLDS church, says Roger Hoole, a lawyer who represents some of the displaced young men and sits on the board for the Utah Association for Justice. He says the church benefits from kicking out young men who would compete for plural wives. This, he says, has devastating consequences.
"There's a huge impact that's coming, like a tsunami, that's going to hit the state of Utah, when these boys get a little older and realize what has happened to them and get angry," Hoole says. "There's a real problem here."
Fowlke's bill gained unanimous support in a Senate committee this morning, and now heads to the full Senate for consideration.
ROTFL!
I'm afraid you are correct.
No...of course this is not the LDS Church!
The real LDS Church, long ago, forsook the teachings and doctrines of the Mormon "prophets" (like Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and others), who prophesied about, and followed, the alleged God-ordained practice of polygamy!
What lunatic would take multiple wives (some even married to ther men), especially with a majority being teenagers! That would just be insanity!!!!
But who, and what kind of person, would follow the lunacy and insane practices of these prophets, right?
My family journals say different. Here are two.
Ah, then I won’t care, right?
Wow, Joseph sure looked stern. Bet he was a good sheriff. Nobody would want to cross him (smile).
He took an 8 year old orphan girl into his family in Nauvoo, IL and brought her across the prarie to Utah.
When she was 15 she fell in love with her tutor. The tutor was sent away, and she was married to Joseph L Heywood, a 46 year old man with two other wives. This was typical.
Today it would be called abuse, just as it truly is.
If this thread is like most others that have anything to do with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or as we are more often called, the Mormons, it will soon be taken over by those who, for reasons of their own, choose to put down my Church, and those of us who worship with it.
We find no problem with people who really want to talk to us about converting to their religion, we spend a lot of time doing it ourselves.
What we find offensive is when people leave out part of the truth to make a half-true lie , or when some one renames something, that we find important or sacred, so it sounds like gutter talk.
I do not know how to tell the difference all the time. There are some Handles that keep showing up, and they are easy to spot. Sometimes, though, I have given a hard and not so kind response to some who honestly care for us and our salvation.
Please forgive us if we get you mixed up.
Thanks for your time,
fred
Seems to me the best option is for some private foundation to set up halfway houses for these kids to get them some decent education and/or vocational and social training that will allow them to assimilate into the larger society.
However, if we look at this in a non-specific context, this is happening all over the world with young men being kicked aside by older men, whether it’s in China or India with their diminished female populations, with polygamous men in Muslim countries, even with viagra-hopped men in the First World seeking to extend their youth, or affirmative action programs that favor young women or young men. Young men are getting the short end of the straw everytime and it’s no wonder there is such an increase of the “rogue elephant” mentality.
Meant to say affirmative action programs that favor young women OVER young men.
I look at the same set of dishonest posters, showing up time and again with a tiny grain of truth and a lot of lies, and I think it isn’t worth it to get involved in the battle on FR. Looking at the caliber of people who are always attacking us, I am proud and comforted that they are my enemies.
You can google all you want give a name of someone who was killed?
Not by Bread Alone
The Journal of Martha Spence Heywood, 1850-56
by Martha Spence Heywood
Edited by Juanita Brooks
Salt Lake City: Utah State Historical Society, 1978 (141 p.)
She's quite a looker....
No Wonder JL Heywood married my ggg-grandmother 15 yr old Mary Bell
Simon Matheson, My grandmother’s great-uncle. and there’s this:
In 1958, Gustive O. Larson, Professor of Church History at the church’s Brigham Young University, acknowledged that blood atonement was actually practiced. He related the following:
“To whatever extent the preaching on blood atonement may have influenced action, it would have been in relation to Mormon disciplinary action among its own members. In point would be a verbally reported case of a Mr. Johnson in Cedar City who was found guilty of adultery with his stepdaughter by a bishop’s court and sentenced to death for atonement of his sin. According to the report of reputable eyewitnesses, judgment was executed with consent of the offender who went to his unconsecrated grave in full confidence of salvation through the shedding of his blood. Such a case, however primitive, is understandable within the meaning of the doctrine and the emotional extremes of the [Mormon] Reformation.” (Utah Historical Quarterly, January, 1958, page 62, note 39)
I have never posted a negative thread of another faith nor tried to stir up hate.
I have always tried endlessly to have a one on one with civil minds, and it is futile to converse with those who only agenda is to smear and distort and some here who know better choose to out right lie!
I hate no one but many times is pushed beyond limits and I do get frustrated than I end up getting labeled.
This has been going on for over a year where FR has allowed the most unsavory, distorted things to be said about the LDS and the LDS are not suppose to get upset.
This poster of this thread has been stirring the pot endlessly for mouths.
Posting things that are sensational just to get the FR upset over the LDS.
There are some sites that folks can’t post from like Chick, well CARM and Tanners & associates should be on that list!
Because their purpose it too perpetuation incite hate and sensation they have so confound the subject that it is next to impossible to reply because it is mixed with things that don’t relate to the topic but it sounds good.
Trying to untangle with a one who buzzed mind is in a belligerent state so is next to impossible to untangle the mess.
What some of these sites do is to make it impossible to have a logical conversation.
The person who visit those site are so buzzed when they leave, that they dismiss anything you try to exchanged with them the image is so imprinted in their minds.
Maybe it's just the quality of the photo? : )
"Estimates are that we've had more than 1,000 children - primarily in southern Utah - thrown out of their homes,"… to ensure there's an ample supply of single, young women who will one day become plural wives.
H.B. 23 adds child abandonment to the definition of child abuse, and makes it a felony crime.
Ok, how about some very basic questions.
How old are these teenagers? If they are eighteen or nineteen they are legally adults.
In a court of law how are you going to establish the reason for turning these “boys” out of the house.
Isn’t child abandonment already illegal in Utah? If it is not already a felony I suspect it is at least a class 1 misdemeanor. What would be the benefit to the “boys” to making their parents felons?
I am not a Mormon and really have little sympathy for the religion but I have great antipathy to those who wish to invade the inner sanctum of the family with out overwhelming need. Government should stay out of the home if at all possible. More often than not government will do more harm than good.
God save us from government officials with good intensions.
I know beyond a doubt that Blood Atonement was never practiced as form of being saved!
I know the Doctrine of The Chruch of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints teaches that there is no other way but by Jesus Christ our savior, that man can be saved!
While many Mormon scholars would like to scoff at those who have seriously studied this matter, there is incontrovertible proof that Brigham Young, the second prophet of the Mormon Church, publicly preached a doctrine called “blood atonement.” Although one might think that the name of this doctrine came from the atonement of Jesus on the cross, the truth of the matter is that it relates to people being put to death. Brigham Young explained this in a sermon given on September 21, 1856:
“There are sins that men commit for which they cannot receive forgiveness in this world, or in that which is to come, and if they had their eyes open to see their true condition, they would be perfectly willing to have their blood spilt upon the ground, that the smoke thereof might ascend to heaven as an offering for their sins; and the smoking incense would atone for their sins, whereas, if such is not the case, they will stick to them and remain upon them in the spirit world.
“I know, when you hear my brethren telling about cutting people off from the earth, that you consider it is strong doctrine; but it is to save them, not to destroy them....
“And further more, I know that there are transgressors, who, if they knew themselves, and the only condition upon which they can obtain forgiveness, would beg of their brethren to shed their blood, that the smoke thereof might ascend to God as an offering to appease the wrath that is kindled against them, and that the law might have its course. I will say further;
I have had men come to me and offer their lives to atone for their sins.
“It is true that the blood of the Son of God was shed for sins through the fall and those committed by men, yet men can commit sins which it can never remit.... There are sins that can be atoned for by an offering upon an altar, as in ancient days; and there are sins that the blood of a lamb, or a calf, or of turtle dove, cannot remit, but they must be atoned for by the blood of the man.” (Sermon by Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 4, pages 53-54); also published in the Mormon Church’s Deseret News, 1856, page 235)
On another occasion Brigham Young made this chilling statement regarding a person’s obligation to spill the blood of those who committed serious sins:
“Now take a person in this congregation who has knowledge with regard to being saved... and suppose that he is overtaken in a gross fault, that he has committed a sin that he knows will deprive him of that exaltation which he desires, and that he cannot attain to it without the shedding his blood, and also knows that by having his blood shed he will atone for that sin and be saved and exalted with the Gods, is there a man or woman in this house but what would say, ‘shed my blood that I may be saved and exalted with the Gods?’
“All mankind love themselves, and let these principles be known by an individual, and he would be glad to have his blood shed. That would be loving themselves, even unto an eternal exaltation. Will you love your brothers and sisters likewise, when they have committed a sin that cannot be atoned for without the shedding of their blood? Will you love that man or woman well enough to shed their blood? That is what Jesus Christ meant....
“I could refer you to plenty of instances where men have been righteously slain, in order to atone for their sins. I have seen scores and hundreds of people for whom there would have been a chance... if their lives had been taken and their blood spilled on the ground as a smoking incense to the Almighty, but who are now angels to the Devil... I have known a great many men who have left this Church for whom there is no chance whatever for exaltation, but if their blood had been spilled, it would have been better for them....
“This is loving our neighbor as ourselves; if he needs help, help him; and if he wants salvation and it is necessary to spill his blood on the earth in order that he may be saved, spill it.... if you have sinned a sin requiring the shedding of blood, except the sin unto death, would not be satisfied nor rest until your blood should be spilled, that you might gain that salvation you desire. That is the way to love mankind.” (Sermon by President Brigham Young, delivered in the Mormon Tabernacle, February 8, 1857; printed in the Deseret News, February 18, 1857; also reprinted in the Journal of Discourses, Vol. 4, pages 219-220)
The boys are typically 12-14 years old when they are dumped. When the boys enter puberty and begin to notice girls, they are regarded as competitors by the senior males in their polygamous sect and are then driven from the cult.
More about the young men HERE.
Re. Isn’t child abandonment already illegal in Utah?
That is a question for an attorney licensed in Utah. I would guess it is to some extent, and I would guess the current statutes poorly enforced and/or carry light penalties or the abandonment practice would not be so widespread.
Re. What would be the benefit to the “boys” to making their parents felons?
The most commonly given reasons for imposing criminal sanctions is to punish persons who commit terrible acts and thereby deter others from doing the same thing.
Re. Government should stay out of the home if at all possible.
Personally, I agree with that statement in general, but believe protecting children from endangerment, including abuse and abandonment, is a warranted intrusion.
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