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Childish behavior |
Posted on 02/22/2008 9:11:12 AM PST by Zakeet
They're called the "Lost Boys," the teenagers kicked out of their homes and communities by leaders of the polygamist Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints to ensure there's an ample supply of single, young women who will one day become plural wives. Representative Lorie Fowlke (R-Orem), is running a bill to make this abandonment a felony.
"Estimates are that we've had more than 1,000 children - primarily in southern Utah - thrown out of their homes," Fowlke says. "What we were trying to do with this bill is criminalize this behavior and send a message to this community that they can't just throw away their children."
H.B. 23 adds child abandonment to the definition of child abuse, and makes it a felony crime. It also adds an enhancement if a parent or organization benefits from the child's abandonment to further an illegal enterprise, such as polygamy. This is the case with the FLDS church, says Roger Hoole, a lawyer who represents some of the displaced young men and sits on the board for the Utah Association for Justice. He says the church benefits from kicking out young men who would compete for plural wives. This, he says, has devastating consequences.
"There's a huge impact that's coming, like a tsunami, that's going to hit the state of Utah, when these boys get a little older and realize what has happened to them and get angry," Hoole says. "There's a real problem here."
Fowlke's bill gained unanimous support in a Senate committee this morning, and now heads to the full Senate for consideration.
I can hardly tell on this thread who actually does love the Lord...at least, not from the behavior and language I have seen expressed here...
People can say they love Jesus, and yet their behavior and language wherever they go, makes one wonder....people can and do say all sorts of things, and yet only they, know the truth of it...those who seek to know the truth of my own faith, for whatever reason, will be disappointed...they can guess, they can make up little stories, they can indulge themselves in their little lies, they can bear false witness about me...if that makes them happy, then so be it...I and only I and God know the truth of the matter...it is between Him and me, and frankly none of your business..
But if it makes you happy, keep on speculating...
I am just trying to understand, why some folks think that they have such great authority, that they can, without so much as a blinking of the eye, proclaim others of other faiths to be ‘not Christians’, even tho others of that other faith, have adamantly proclaimed Christ as their Savior...it really is a spectacle...
I am not obliged to share my faith with you...I am obliged only to the Lord, and that is sufficient for me...
I said there were time Jesus did not reply to questions put to him!
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Scriptures, please...
Would one of the Mormonism apologists like to explain why the sect in question is not accepted in the LDS fold?
Thanks, Tennessee Nana.
That is your opinion only, and therefore irrelevant to me...no matter how many times you continue to repeat the same stuff, it call comes down to the fact that what you are saying, is merely your opinion, and as such, it is unimportant and irrelevant to me...What is important and relevant to me, is my relationship with the Lord, and of that relationship, you dont have a clue...
This is so lacking in logic Nic, the Lord gave all his Children free will to grow and learn on their own there are many Christians who cordially disagree with the LDS but know that the LDS too Love the Lord.
Everyone does not have to fit in one mode to be accepted by the Savior, he died for the world but it is up to each of us the degree of his gift we are willing to accepte.
There are over 30k plus denominations each has selected how much of the gift they are willing to receive that the Lord Jesus Christ offered us.
I think you have been reading into the comments and queries of FReepers more than is intended...
You appear to put more of an importance on your beliefs than is required...
Belief in the Jesus of the Biblwe is simple and exciting...
Christians love to share their faith in Jesus their Lord and Savior...
Jesus commands us to...But He bubbles over and out of us anyway...
Since you appear to have a “faith” exclusive of the Biblical Jesus...
please feel free to keep silent...
It is not "my opinion only" it is according to God and according to God's Word. As to your "personal relationship with the Lord," once AGAIN...I was not discussing that. Though apparently you wish to continue to make this about YOU PERSONALLY, it was once addressed and that truly was sufficient. But I repeat, once again: I don’t know about any person, individually, anywhere in the entire world. But I do know what God said about: false prophets, false religions, false teachers, and false doctrines. And Mormonism is a false religion founded by a false prophet. "Methinks the lady doth protest too much."
Contrary to your The Old and New Testaments Scriptures are replete with statements that there will be prophets throughout the ages to the end times. The Scriptures don't specifically name who they will be, from where they will come, or the hour they will come. Nevertheless, come they will. Instead, the believer is told about the CHARACTERISTICS of the prophets who WILL come, in both the Old and New Testaments, so they know exactly what to look for when they arrive. God would have the believers judge whether the prophet is a TRUE prophet or a FALSE prophet.
In judging whether a prophet is a TRUE prophet or a FALSE prophet, the believe must look to the Scriptures for guidance. If a prophet is sent by the Christian God Who wrote the Christian Bible, then common sense dictates that identifying same would require relying upon the Christian God's Word, i.e., both the Old and New Testaments [not outside sources], to determine TRUTH.
False Prophets undermine the authority of God; draw the people to themselves; make the Word of God to no effect in people's lives; and teach from doctrine the commandments of men (not God).
When tempted by Satan in the wilderness, the Lord Jesus Christ quoted exclusively from the Old Testament Book of Deuteronomy when beating back Satan. I think, therefore, it's a good place to start when determining true and false prophets:
Deuteronomy 18:20-22:But the prophet, who shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presump- tuously; thou shalt not be afraid of him.
Deuteronomy 13:1-3:If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
From the above Scriptures, we can determine the following: 1) What a TRUE prophet of God claims will come to pass will come to pass 100% of the time. A false prophet's prophecies miss the 100% mark. A false prophet lies. A false prophet may speak in the "name of other gods," may be a "dreamer of dreams" and "perform signs and wonders," however, IF what they speak CONTRADICTS God's Word and God's commands, then the prophet is a FALSE prophet.
In Jeremiah, we read yet more about false prophets who prophesy from "false visions, divinations, idolatries, and the delusions of their own minds." Obviously, these prophets are having VISIONS and DIVINATIONS, but they are not from God. The mere fact that someone has visions and divinations is not a "sign" that the prophet is of God and, therefore, a true prophet. Rather, these prophets were condemned by God Himself. Why? Because they were leading people astray from God and into various forms of idolatry. God smite dead the false prophets and those who believed in them. Why? Because rather than believing IN GOD, the people BELIEVED IN a false prophet. These people KNEW and/or had the ability to know that what they were doing and IN WHOM they believed CONTRADICTED God's Word and commands. They were without excuse and willingly turned away from HIM to BELIEVE IN another.
Jeremiah 18:11-16:Then the LORD said to me, "Do not pray for the well-being of this people. Although they fast, I will not listen to their cry; though they offer burnt offerings and grain offerings, I will not accept them. Instead, I will destroy them with the sword, famine and plague." But I said, "Ah, Sovereign LORD, the prophets keep telling them, 'You will not see the sword or suffer famine. Indeed, I will give you lasting peace in this place.' "
Then the LORD said to me, "The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries and the delusions of their own minds. Therefore, this is what the LORD says about the prophets who are prophesying in my name: I did not send them, yet they are saying, 'No sword or famine will touch this land.' Those same prophets will perish by sword and famine. And the people they are prophesying to will be thrown out into the streets of Jerusalem because of the famine and sword. There will be no one to bury them or their wives, their sons or their daughters. I will pour out on them the calamity they deserve.
As another example in Jeremiah, we read about a true vs. false prophet, and how false prophets lead people into believing lies:
Jeremiah 28:15:Christ, in the New Testament Scriptures, warn believers concerning the manner, method, and characteristics of false prophets, which parallels exactly that which was said concerning them in the Old Testament Scriptures:Then said the Prophet Jeremiah [the TRUE prophet], unto Hananiah, the [FALSE] Prophet, 'Hear now, Hananiah, the Lord hath not sent thee, but thou makest this people to trust in a lie.
Matthew 7:15-16: Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are revening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits....Matthew 7:22-24: Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy Name? And in the Thy Name have cast out Devils? And in thy Name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you; depart from me, ye that work iniquity. For there shall arise false 'Christs', and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that if (it were) possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Matthew 24:11: And MANY false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive MANY.
Mark 13:22: For false christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall show signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
Luke 6:26: Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! For so did their fathers to the false prophets.
What is it, then, that Christians, followers of Christ, should do? What Jesus Himself said:
John 31-32: ...Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."
We are to believe HIS teachings not another's teachings. If what another teaches is not what Christ Himself taught, then that teacher is NOT of God. How do I know this? It is not only evident after reading all of the previous Scripture, but it makes sense LOGICALLY. Christ would not have His followers teaching AGAINST Him and what He taught is true. This would mean He is divided against Himself. And if Christ were not of God, then His teachings would contradict God, God's nature, God's Word, and God's commands, but they do not.
Jesus was accused of being a false prophet by the Pharisees. They claimed that the miracles He performed and His abilities to drive out demons from people were because He was a messenger of Satan. But Jesus showed how flawed their thinking was when He said:
Matthew 12:Finally, Peter warns against false prophets who deny Christ's work of redemption:24 But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, "It is only by Beelzebub, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons."
25 Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? 27 And if I drive out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. 28 But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
29 "Or again, how can anyone enter a strong man's house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can rob his house.
30 "He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters. 31 And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
33 "Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit. 34 You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks. 35 The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. 36 But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. 37 For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned."
2nd Peter 2:1-3:To summarize:But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
True prophets do not lie (Deuteronomy 18:21-22; Jeremiah 18:11-16)
Their age and sex doesn't matter (Acts 2:17,18)
They prophecy 100% correct 100% of the time (Deuteronomy 18:21-22)
Their words match with Scripture 100% (Deuteronomy 13:1-3)
Their words, message, and fruit do not contradict God's nature, words and commands (Jeremiah 18:11-16; Matthew 12:24-33)
Their message is to encourage the believers to obey the Law of God (Jeremiah 18:11-16; Ezekiel 7:26)
Their teaching glorifies Jesus Christ and His work of salvation (1 John 4:1-3)
Miracles alone do not prove they are a true prophet (Deuteronomy 13:1-3; Jeremiah 18:11-16; Matthew 24:24,25)
Their work, message, and walk will display the fruits of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 7:15-20 and Galatians 5:22,23)
(See also: Matthew 4:4; Jeremiah 23:16-17; Ezekiel 13:10; Acts 13:6-12; Exodus 7:8-12; Jeremiah 23:9-32; Exodus 13; Matthew 24:24; 2nd Chronicles 18; and Jeremiah 28.)
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please tell us about your time in Heaven as you understand it.
I have asked this of others on other threads and none of the EV’s have replied, Will you?
I dont really care much what you happen to think...since you have decided to become the super judge, and say that I, in your own words... “appear to have a “faith” exclusive of the Biblical Jesus” I will just leave it to others, to make of that statement what they wish...because I will not come forth, all bubbly as you describe it, I therefore must believe in ‘faith’ exclusive of the Biblical Jesus...
I have known, many ‘bubbly’ supposed Christians, and they were anything but Christian in their ways of life, from what I knew...but heck, they were all ‘bubbly’ in public, at church, when others were watching...so now, being all ‘bubbly’ counts for something?...
The Christ of Mormonism is not the Christ of Orthodox Christianity.
The Christ the Mormons worship is a creature.
The Christ I worship is the Creator.
Ergo, the Mormons worship another Christ and it is not a Christian religion, but a false religion based upon a false prophet.
When you attack one faith you really are attacking them for we all should be striving to lived our faith.
There is a marked difference between attacking and discussing/debating. I am questioning, discussing and debating...not attacking.
I debate with many who oppose Christianity and do not see their positions as a personal attack.
Additionally, your entire religion started (with what you would call an attack) by vistitors telling Joseph Smith (in his first vision) that all churches and their professors were wrong.
Mormon prophets have stated, among other statements that you would characterize as an attack if they were directed at Mormonism, that there are two churches...the Mormon church and the church of the devil.
Give me a break...You appear to be hiding behind your claims of attacks, which are non-existent.
Mark 15
2 And Pilate asked him, Art thou the King of the Jews? And he answering said unto him, Thou sayest it.
3 And the chief priests accused him of many things: but he answered nothing.
4 And Pilate asked him again, saying, Answerest thou nothing? behold how many things they witness against thee.
5 But Jesus yet answered nothing; so that Pilate marvelled.
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Which of the Christs that are taught by non-Mormon Christians do you follow.
One of the reasons I started looking for a better church was because by man’s works alone, in reading the Bible, man could not, and have not, come to one understanding of the “truth”.
God is not that confused.
You will save yourself a lot of wear and tear if you stop preaching at me, because frankly, I am not interested in what you have to say, slanted by your own viewpoint...
It really is just that simple...
changes nothing, by the works of man in studyimg the Bible there is a confusion in how we get to Heaven, that, can only be caused by more then one Christ, or a bunch of men who did not get the Word of God correct.
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1 Corinthians 2:12
We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
2 Corinthians 1:13-14
13. For we do not write you anything you cannot read or understand. And I hope that,
14. as you have understood us in part, you will come to understand fully that you can boast of us just as we will boast of you in the day of the Lord Jesus.
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Which Christian Church has it right?
The slanting of view is obviously your own, as any religion which would call itself Christian but denies the deity of Christ is, by definition, not Christian. That has nothing to do with opinion, except that you wish it could be that way.
wow, TN........Christ didn’t answer Pontius Pilate a couple times..........somehow that translates into His refusal to answer all kinds of questions put to Him all the time; and negates the words of Peter to those who call themselves Christians:
1 Peter 3:5 But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have.
But I’m unaware of any Scriptures wherein Christ “counseled” His people to refuse to answer questions concerning their faith and beliefs, as has been implied on this thread.
First of you are misquoting it was the Lord who was displeased and Joseph Smith was the messinger
And the way many act today that was revelation continues to testify of it weight in doctrine
BTW those same admonishment was also spoken of in the Bible! Matt. 15:
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Mark 7:
6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
JOSEPH SMITH—HISTORY
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
What is salvation and how do we obtain it?
You won't answer this simple question , either, lady lawyer?
Why won't the Mormons on this thread answer this question?
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