Posted on 02/19/2008 4:46:10 PM PST by Zakeet
In his pursuit of the presidency, Mitt Romney held fast to his Mormon faith, though his religion remains controversial with evangelicals and some other Christians. But his determined (and ultimately futile) wooing of evangelicals led him to make some statements that didn't quite square with Mormon beliefs and culture. And the effort itself may have deepened the impression of him as inauthentic—even to some fellow Mormons.
Early in his presidential bid, Romney was asked what he thought of polygamy. Prompted by what they considered a divine revelation, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints discontinued the practice more than a century ago, and the church distances itself from polygamist "fundamentalists." But Romney went one step further, saying he couldn't "imagine anything more awful than polygamy." Many Mormons were privately taken aback. Mormons believe that, in its time, "plural marriage" was a commandment from God, and they are, as a group, fiercely proud of their ancestors, hundreds of whom practiced polygamy. (Romney's own great-grandfather had five wives.) LDS church members loathe the polygamy stereotypes and jokes bandied by outsiders. But hearing Romney—the most recognizable face of their faith these days—disavow it in those terms was mildly unsettling to LDS insiders.
Others were puzzled to hear Romney say he reads the Gideon Bible—a version popular with evangelicals: Mormons uniformly study the King James version, in a Salt Lake edition that is cross-referenced to all other Mormon scripture. "Seems like he just figured he had to say the safest, most Protestant thing he could think of—that was kind of annoying," says Russell Arben Fox, a Mormon professor of political science at Friends University in Wichita, Kans.
(Excerpt) Read more at newsweek.com ...
We are confident in our religion. We don’t need to go around bashing the religions of others in order to make ourselves feel better. We don’t need to create a common enemy in order to create unity amongst ourselves.
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I dont believe I have read a comment that stated the Christian bashing by mormons in these threads was to make the mormons feel better about themselves...
However the rate that the mormons spewed their anti-Christian propaganda does seem to suggest that a deep seated lack of confidence in their beliefs may have been in play...
As a Christian with confidence in Jesus Christ. I know that I am only required to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ...
God does not demand that I ram the message down anyone’s throats or call others evil names...or threaten them..
After repeating the Gospel message, and warning you that if you believe in Jesus you will be saved, but if you do not believe on Jesus you will be damned..I have fulfilled all that is required of me...Ezekiel 3:17-21
Then it is up to you to believe or not to believe...Mark 16:15, 16
The “need to create a common enemy in order to create unity amongst” yourselves are your words
I have read no words of the kind from Christians...
Christians know that we will individually stand before Jesus ...That we are individually saved...
There is not family or group salvation...we are saved for our own belief in Jesus not someone else’s...
We just happen to have read the same words in the Bible, and believed them..
Our individual decisions to repent of our sin and be saved, automatically caused us to be knitted together into the Body of Christ..it’s a supernatural thing
I recognize other Christians by the Spirit..
If you feel like you are being ganged up on you need to check yourself out...
Check and see if what you believe lines up with the Word of God, the Bible...
And ONLY the Bible...
Dont look for a “burning in the bosum” Jesus never said there was to be one..
Romney’s supporters were the only freepers ever to call me a bigot.
The Romney’s supporters were the only freepers ever to call ME a bigot, too ....
What does that mean ???
People Attacking Mitt are the only ones ever to call me the Devil, a bigot and a servant of the devil on this forum. What does it mean?
It means that people get really involved in politics on this forum and lose perspective sometimes... that’s what it means.
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No, DU
It means the mormons are on shaky ground in their beliefs, and they have to resort to name calling in order to attempt a smoke screen...
Like any religious or ethnic group, Mormons are loyal to their own.
Well, all I can say is if Evangelicals were ever 90-95% "loyal" to their own with their votes, the raiders of the "bigot patrol" would run roughshod over those folks here and elsewhere. The hue and cry would be tremendous. Accusations of "bias" and "bigotry" and "identity politics" would never cease. (But when it's non-Evangelicals, these same folks grow silent and essentially say, "That's nice." ...Can you say two-faced hypocrisy?)
From the article:
But many Mormons were troubled by Romney's eager wooing of evangelical voters and his efforts to blur the differences between the two groups. "I do think he was attempting to reach out to conservative evangelicals in a way that, as a Mormon, I'm not entirely comfortable with," says Nathan Oman, a law professor at William and Mary. "I don't want us to fall into the trap of trying to present Mormonism as some sort of idiosyncratic brand of Protestantism....Mormons are anathema—not only on theological grounds [but because to evangelicals] there is something uniquely disreputable about being a Mormon. I really don't think there's anything you can say that is going to convince these people to forgive you for being a Latter-day Saint. I didn't see there was any way he was going to get those votes."
For those who have posted on this thread blaming Newsweek for being the source of these comments [POWG, alreadythere, vigilanteman], please note that some lengthy quotes like the above come directly from Mormons.
According to an LDS law professor, "there is something uniquely disreputable about being a Mormon."
Evangelicals didn't create that reputation. It's been around for a long time. And a good chunk of it is simply tied to the founder himself--meaning that for many Mormons, the only thing they've publicly done that's "disreputable" is to lend their very "sustenance" [LDS "sustain" their "prophets"] to a man who claimed that God was his "right hand man"; to a man who claimed he was the only man who ever kept a church together while Jesus and Paul's followers "ran away from them"; to a man who married 9 to 11 women who were already currently married to other men; to a man...
So now you are my judge ????
No, but I know who is my Savior. That’s all that’s required, isn’t it?
"Some time in the second year after our removal to Manchester, there was in the place where we lived an unusual excitement on the subject of religion. . . . [G]reat multitudes united themselves to the dfiferen religious parties, which created no small stir and division amongst the people, some crying, 'Lo, here?' and others, 'Lo, there!' Some were contending for the Methodist faith, some for the Presbyterian, and some for the Baptist.
"For, notwithstanding the great love which he converts to these different faiths expressed at the time of their conversion, and the great zeal manifested by the respective clergy, who were active in getting up and promoting this extraordinary scene of religious feeling, in order to have everybody converted, as they were pleased to call it, let them join what sect they pleased; yet when the converts began to file off, some to one party and some to another, it was seen that the seemingly good feelings of both the priests and the converts were more pretended than real; for a scene of great confusion and bad feeling ensued -- priest contending against priest, and convert against convert; so that all their good feelings one for another, if they ever had any, were entirely lost in a strife of words and a contest about opinions."
Joseph Smith correctly recognized that the pure love of Christ didn't exist in that setting. And, to be honest, I never fully understood those paragraphs until I started reading some of the anti-Mormon stuff on FR, posted by "Christians" who saw no irony in being ugly and insulting in order to prove that they are more "Christian" than us Mormons.
Good point!
Your assertion Mormons are Christian is ludicrous for at least three reasons
FIRST: MORMONISM REJECTS MANY ESSENTIAL CHRISTIAN DOCTRINES
I suggest you check out the article: We're Christians just like you! wherein the author presents a number of well-annotated examples.
If necessary, dozens of additional articles and illustrations can be found on this WEBSITE alone.
SECOND: THE MORMON CHURCH UNEQUIVOCALLY CONDEMNS CHRISTIANS AND CHRISTIANITY
And the angel of God said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth. And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the whore of all the earth, and she sat upon many waters; and she had dominion over all the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people. – Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 14:10-11If still not convinced, you can find many more similar quotes of Mormon leaders slamming Christians HERE and HERE.My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong) – and which I should join. … I was answered by God that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.” He again forbade me to join with any of them – Prophet Joseph Smith, Joseph Smith History 1:18-20
Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century. – Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.167
The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God. – Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:171
Brother Taylor has just said that the religions of the day were hatched in hell. The eggs were laid in hell, hatched on its borders, and then kicked on to the earth." – Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 6:176
Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom. – Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, 10:127
Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute beast. – Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses 13:225
What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing ... Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest fools; they know neither God nor the things of God. – Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses 13:225
The Book of Mormon remains secure, unchanged and unchangeable … but with the Bible it was not and is not so … it was once in the sole and exclusive care and custody of an abominable organization (Christianity), founded by the devil himself, likened prophetically unto a great whore, whose great aim and purpose was to destroy the souls of men in the name of religion. In these hands it ceased to be the book it once was. – Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, The Joseph Smith Translation, pp. 12, 13
In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints "do not believe in the traditional Christ.”No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. – Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley, LDS Church News, June 20, 1998, p.7
THIRD: THE MORMON CHURCH ITSELF REJECTS CHRISTIANITY
Beginning with Joseph Smith, Mormon prophets have steadfastly proclaimed all Christian denominations were in a state of apostasy.
This raises an interesting question. A heretic is someone who rejects one or more doctrines of religion, but an apostate is someone who has rejected the religion entirely. How is it, exactly, that you can be something you have completely dismissed? How does that work?
Here's a link you "should have provided" so that you wouldn't be accused of lying, misrepresenting, or LEAVING ANYTHING OUT. And since I'm not into "leaving anything out," at the link provided below, there are the 10 DIFFERENT ACCOUNTS of the "first vision," so that no one can claim "the" accurate account "hasn't been posted."
Joseph Smith's Changing First Vision Accounts
As to what constitutes the "accurate" account, I guess as of today, the "official version" continues to be the 10th account of 1838.....but, who knows, a super-improved "edited" account could come out.
I believe that Christ is my Savior. Therefore, I am a Christian. I do not need to accept all your doctrines and creeds to be a Christian. That is between me and Christ.
ladylawyer. I still hold that your cognative dissonance is amazing. It is clearly understood that the reason Joeseph Smith Jr. started his little religion was that he claimed that God himself told him all current “religions” were an abomination. It was YOUR guy that started this little spat. You apparantly are unwilling to accept this fact. Again...remind me to never hire you as my attorney. Your eyes are too glazed over.
I’ll ignore the ad hominem.
Joseph Smith’s position was no more or no less provocative than the position of Protestantism, generally. There would be no Protestant churches if there had not been a belief that Christianity at that time — i.e. the Catholic Church — had become corrupted.
In other words, you would be a Catholic if your spiritual forefathers had not rejected Catholicism the same way that Joseph Smith rejected the Protestantism which surrounded him. So what?
I believe that Christ is my Savior. Therefore, I am a Christian. I do not need to accept all your doctrines and creeds to be a Christian. That is between me and Christ.
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Jesus said..
The time is fulfilled and the Kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye and believe the Gospel..Mark 1:15
Did you repent ???
Nobody asked you to accept (any additional) doctrines and creeds to be a Christian...
Just as Christians do not believe that our salvation is dependent on a belief in Joseph Smith..
“Nobody asked you to accept (any additional) doctrines and creeds to be a Christian...”
What about your co-religionist who just posted saying that my claim to be a Christian is “ridiculous”?
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