Haven't Anti-Mormons Completely Destroyed the Credibility of Mormonism?

jefflindsay.com ^ | Nov. 5, 2006 | Jeff Lindsay

[Elsie]

The Tanners and you are still processing through the world filters and do not understand Revelation nor the office.

Mindreading

[Elsie]

I guess you're ignoring my post #72 then.

 

Of course!!!

 

 

 

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Ask me!

[Elsie]

We have no diaries or records of minutes of neither meetings nor how or why some revelations were received.

And yet, when these same items from LDS, Inc. are quoted from, LDS members get REAL huffy and say, "THEY wuzn't speaking for the Lord then! That ain't our Scripture."

[Elsie]

Those who walk with the Lord don’t spend their time tearing down or maligning others just because they do not understand.

You are absolutely right this time!!

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We do it bcause we DO understand!

[Elsie]

..., I would like to know from whom you base your claim?

Joe said so!!!!

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http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/19#19
  17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
  18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
  19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
  20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother, “I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.” 
 

 

[Elsie]

Ezek 37 (The stick of Judah (Bible) and the stick of Joseph (Book of Mormon) become one in the Lord’s hand—Israel shall be gathered and cleansed—The Messiah shall reign over them—They shall receive the everlasting gospel covenant.)

You have to ask yourself:

What kind of reasoning goes in a mind, that actually would believe the LDS spin that gets put on this passage of Scripture?

[Elsie]

Short answer: no.

[nicmarlo]

Actually........that was JUST the question I was asking myself this morning.

It’s unfathomable to me.

[nicmarlo]

That’s the short answer....that I never got. It went in gyrations first.

[Elsie]

Why does Resty ANY LDS Organization member bother to post Scriptures from the Bible when she has denounced the Bible as a work of fiction ???

Simple: they want it both ways.

When the bible appears to support their position; they use it.

When it doesn't; they ignore it.

Reasonable people can see their Machiavellian twistings.

[nicmarlo]

“Lying for the Lord” - never give a straight answer.

Huh.....that goes contrary to Scripture. Imagine that.

[Elsie]

Isn’t it amazing, Sevenbak, how readily you are ignored when you begin to actually cite scripture?

Not really.

SATAN 'cited' Scripture, too.

With the same effect.

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Lindsay has very accurately summed up the tactics of most of the detractors.

The Bible has very accurately summed up the foundation of your Organization.

[aruanan]

Haven't Anti-Mormons Completely Destroyed the Credibility of Mormonism?

No, Joseph Smith pretty much accomplished that all on his own. It's just taken a while for all those seeds to start sprouting.

[Osage Orange]

Tant...you are so deluded & deceived it's sad.

The two statements are very contradictory...and anyone not deceived can see it.

It's quite amazing really...the power that cults have on people.

[Elsie]

Did you ever read The Book of Mormon, and if so did you read it like you would the Bible.

Your BoM is worthless for doctrine of the LDS Organization.

Read the D&C's...

THAT'S where most of your practices come from.

Oh yeah, the Pearl of Great Price adds a bit, too.

[Elsie]

As you can see it has NOTHING to do with the Book of Mormon.

She don't care: that's YOUR 'opinion' or YOUR 'interpretation'.

Headquarters has FULLY convinced her it reads the way THEY say it does.

"This comes out only by prayer and fasting."

[Elsie]

 

We are led by God. Not by man.

 

It sure doesn't LOOK that way!

 

 

    OFFICIAL DECLARATION—1

To Whom It May Concern:

Press dispatches having been sent for political purposes, from Salt Lake City, which have been widely published, to the effect that the Utah Commission, in their recent report to the Secretary of the Interior, allege that plural marriages are still being solemnized and that forty or more such marriages have been contracted in Utah since last June or during the past year, also that in public discourses the leaders of the Church have taught, encouraged and urged the continuance of the practice of polygamy—

I, therefore, as President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, do hereby, in the most solemn manner, declare that these charges are false. We are not teaching polygamy or plural marriage, nor permitting any person to enter into its practice, and I deny that either forty or any other number of plural marriages have during that period been solemnized in our Temples or in any other place in the Territory.

One case has been reported, in which the parties allege that the marriage was performed in the Endowment House, in Salt Lake City, in the Spring of 1889, but I have not been able to learn who performed the ceremony; whatever was done in this matter was without my knowledge. In consequence of this alleged occurrence the Endowment House was, by my instructions, taken down without delay.

Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriages, which laws have been pronounced constitutional by the court of last resort, I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws, and to use my influence with the members of the Church over which I preside to have them do likewise.

There is nothing in my teachings to the Church or in those of my associates, during the time specified, which can be reasonably construed to inculcate or encourage polygamy; and when any Elder of the Church has used language which appeared to convey any such teaching, he has been promptly reproved. And I now publicly declare that my advice to the Latter-day Saints is to refrain from contracting any marriage forbidden by the law of the land.

WILFORD WOODRUFF
President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

President Lorenzo Snow offered the following:

“I move that, recognizing Wilford Woodruff as the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the only man on the earth at the present time who holds the keys of the sealing ordinances, we consider him fully authorized by virtue of his position to issue the Manifesto which has been read in our hearing, and which is dated September 24th, 1890, and that as a Church in General Conference assembled, we accept his declaration concerning plural marriages as authoritative and binding.”

The vote to sustain the foregoing motion was unanimous.

Salt Lake City, Utah, October 6, 1890.

EXCERPTS FROM THREE ADDRESSES BY
PRESIDENT WILFORD WOODRUFF
REGARDING THE MANIFESTO

The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty. (Sixty-first Semiannual General Conference of the Church, Monday, October 6, 1890, Salt Lake City, Utah. Reported in Deseret Evening News, October 11, 1890, p. 2.)

It matters not who lives or who dies, or who is called to lead this Church, they have got to lead it by the inspiration of Almighty God. If they do not do it that way, they cannot do it at all. . . .

I have had some revelations of late, and very important ones to me, and I will tell you what the Lord has said to me. Let me bring your minds to what is termed the manifesto. . . .

The Lord has told me to ask the Latter-day Saints a question, and He also told me that if they would listen to what I said to them and answer the question put to them, by the Spirit and power of God, they would all answer alike, and they would all believe alike with regard to this matter.

The question is this: Which is the wisest course for the Latter-day Saints to pursue—to continue to attempt to practice plural marriage, with the laws of the nation against it and the opposition of sixty millions of people, and at the cost of the confiscation and loss of all the Temples, and the stopping of all the ordinances therein, both for the living and the dead, and the imprisonment of the First Presidency and Twelve and the heads of families in the Church, and the confiscation of personal property of the people (all of which of themselves would stop the practice); or, after doing and suffering what we have through our adherence to this principle to cease the practice and submit to the law, and through doing so leave the Prophets, Apostles and fathers at home, so that they can instruct the people and attend to the duties of the Church, and also leave the Temples in the hands of the Saints, so that they can attend to the ordinances of the Gospel, both for the living and the dead?

The Lord showed me by vision and revelation exactly what would take place if we did not stop this practice. If we had not stopped it, you would have had no use for . . . any of the men in this temple at Logan; for all ordinances would be stopped throughout the land of Zion. Confusion would reign throughout Israel, and many men would be made prisoners. This trouble would have come upon the whole Church, and we should have been compelled to stop the practice. Now, the question is, whether it should be stopped in this manner, or in the way the Lord has manifested to us, and leave our Prophets and Apostles and fathers free men, and the temples in the hands of the people, so that the dead may be redeemed. A large number has already been delivered from the prison house in the spirit world by this people, and shall the work go on or stop? This is the question I lay before the Latter-day Saints. You have to judge for yourselves. I want you to answer it for yourselves. I shall not answer it; but I say to you that that is exactly the condition we as a people would have been in had we not taken the course we have.

. . . I saw exactly what would come to pass if there was not something done. I have had this spirit upon me for a long time. But I want to say this: I should have let all the temples go out of our hands; I should have gone to prison myself, and let every other man go there, had not the God of heaven commanded me to do what I did do; and when the hour came that I was commanded to do that, it was all clear to me. I went before the Lord, and I wrote what the Lord told me to write. . . .

I leave this with you, for you to contemplate and consider. The Lord is at work with us. (Cache Stake Conference, Logan, Utah, Sunday, November 1, 1891. Reported in Deseret Weekly, November 14, 1891.)

Now I will tell you what was manifested to me and what the Son of God performed in this thing. . . . All these things would have come to pass, as God Almighty lives, had not that Manifesto been given. Therefore, the Son of God felt disposed to have that thing presented to the Church and to the world for purposes in his own mind. The Lord had decreed the establishment of Zion. He had decreed the finishing of this temple. He had decreed that the salvation of the living and the dead should be given in these valleys of the mountains. And Almighty God decreed that the Devil should not thwart it. If you can understand that, that is a key to it. (From a discourse at the sixth session of the dedication of the Salt Lake Temple, April 1893. Typescript of Dedicatory Services, Archives, Church Historical Department, Salt Lake City, Utah.)

 

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[Elsie]

That is we we differ from every other faith.

And this is why you are not Christian.

[Elsie]

I can get more out of the Iliad, the Odyssey and the Aeneid than I can out of the Book of Mormon.

O Brother; Where Art Thou?

[Elsie]

Okay resty....throughout this thread you have repeatedly dodged answering my post #72, denied that Scripture is accurate and to be relied upon, and deflected onto other topics.

Have fun; now that you've gotten stuck with the TarBaby!!