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To: NYer

“This penal understanding of a temporary post-mortem punishment has its roots in the Western patristic tradition and was elaborated with precision in the medieval period.”

Precisely - it’s unbiblical. Those who are truly in Christ have been justified by His one time sacrifice (Hebrews 1:1 - 3, Hebrews 10:12)

We see in Hebrews 9 the report that Christ took care of sin - salvation is from being born again.

“23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.”

Continued sanctification - repentance of sin, growing in holiness - is the will of God for each of His children, to be conformed to Christ. This will be by His Spirit, and not our own goodness. Romans 8:

“28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.”

Ephesians 2 shows how we who are in Christ have the victory over sin He promised, though we yet live in daily defeat while on earth, in this sinful flesh.

“4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”

The works of Christians will be judged (Rev 20:11 - 15) and those which are for God’s glory will earn us rewards from our Father.

“10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.”


7 posted on 02/12/2008 4:50:06 PM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg (Test ALL things, hold to that which is True.)
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To: Manfred the Wonder Dawg

It is in the Bible. You are just looking for the word “Purgatory.”

Here are the references:

Lk 12:58-59; 1 Cor 3:15; Mt 5:25-26 ... temporary agony.
Heb 12:6-11 ... God’s painful discipline.
Mt 12:32 ... no forgiveness ... nor in the age to come.
1 Pet 3:18-20 ... might be purgatory (limbo?).
1 Pet 4:6 ... preached to the dead.
Rev 21:27 ... nothing unclean shall enter heaven.
Heb 12:23 ... souls in heaven are perfect.
Col 1:24; 2 Sam 12:13-14 ... “extra” suffering.
2 Mac 12:43-46 ... sacrifice for the dead.
2 Tim 1:15-18 ... prayer for Onesiphorus for “that Day.”
1 Jn 5:14-17 ... mortal/venial sins


9 posted on 02/12/2008 5:27:22 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Manfred the Wonder Dawg
Manfred,

IMO, Purgatory is the perfect example of someone who believes that Christ's sacrifice was not enough to cleanse them of their sins while here on earth. The Bible makes no distinction between mortal sin and venial sin.

Paul doesn't say, "...for some have committed venial sins and fall short of the glory of God but others have committed mortal sins and REALLY fall short of the glory of God therefore the sacrifice of Christ wasn't enough therefore after you physically die, we'll all get together and pray for your soul and pay something to the local priest...THEN...the gift of God is eternal life through all this."

At least, that's not what my Bible says...I'm just saying...

Of course, if we changed translations and twisted and left out words, and took it completely out of context, we can make it say anything, now can't we?

In Christ...Alone!

10 posted on 02/12/2008 5:42:22 PM PST by WileyPink ("...I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6b)
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