FK, you said "So, if one wants his life to be nourished by God, he MUST know the scriptures himself." Why MUST he? Where is God quoted as saying man MUST know the scriptures himself?
When you refer to my agreeing that I "worship the Bible" you have to include the definition that we agreed upon. That is "devotion to God's word". Otherwise, readers will get confused. By this same type of definition, of course you will be fine with my saying that you worship Mary, by your own admission. And since I do not pray to the Bible, that would make your worship of Mary all the stronger
But this can't be just devotion, FK. You treat the Bible as perfect, complete—by definition, divine because it is the word of God. And anything that comes from God is divine in essence, including His holy words. And that which is divine (in essence) is God and is worshiped.
No Orthodox or Catholic will say that Mary is divine. It is just that she chose not to sin better than others. Otherwise, she is fully human, capable of sin, mortal, and in need of a Savior. The Orthodox and Catholics have a devotion to Mary, but anyone who considers the Bible to be perfect and divine in essence goes beyond devotion and enters into idolatry.
And yes, the Holy Spirit will teach us everything we need to know. He will illuminate the scriptures to us so that we will understand what we need.
The Bible says the HS will "illuminate the scriptures" to us?!?
One cannot know what or how to pray without first knowing God's word.
Then Abraham could not know how to worship God!
But we do know form the Bible that even the earliest humans gave thanks to God. And that's what the Orthodox and Catholic Christians do to this very day! Gratitude is worship, giving praise or glory (doxa) to God.
We can't know how to ask in good faith without first knowing God's word.
Ask? Is this what this is all about? What's in it for me? Who says that prayer is asking and not giving? Fasting is prayer. And fasting is giving. Devoting times three times a day to remember the Lord and give thanks at meals is prayer. The only thing one should ask is for Him to have mercy on us, and for that you don't need the Bible. People were in awe of God's power and glory even before anything was written.
God can always make special dispensations for people on desert islands, etc., but I am talking about in the normal course.
What "normal" course, FK? God did not distribute the bibles to everyone and said "read it!"
We can't know what God's Commandments are without first knowing God's word. Again, you are espousing a works-ONLY salvation model. The Bible does not teach that. Rather, it teaches a faith-ONLY salvation model.
First, Christ was a Jew and He taught Judaism, which is works-based. You can't love God without knowing the Bible? Is that in the Bible?
Barring a special dispensation, one cannot know what he believes IN without first knowing the word of God.
Then the faith doesn't come from God, but form the Bible. Yet you believe Paul who says he knew Christ in a flash!
One cannot pray without first receiving God's grace. That grace will lead a believer to want to know God's word.
But a few lines before than you write: "One cannot know what or how to pray without first knowing God's word." So, now it's grace? But, let's say you receive grace without the word. In other words you believe, right? Isn't that what grace gives us? Faith? Where does it say in the Bible that, in addition to grace (grace is not sufficient!) we need to read the Bible in order to know what to believe in?
I am making a logical inference from what Jesus said, that man does not live by bread alone but on every word from God. You can't live on God's words if you don't know them. I believe the words of God have actual power, and so I want to avail myself of that power by knowing them.
FK: When you refer to my agreeing that I "worship the Bible" you have to include the definition that we agreed upon. That is "devotion to God's word". Otherwise, readers will get confused.
But this can't be just devotion, FK. You treat the Bible as perfect, complete—by definition, divine because it is the word of God. And anything that comes from God is divine in essence, including His holy words. And that which is divine (in essence) is God and is worshiped.
If everything that comes from God is divine in essence then everything in the world is divine in essence. So, your argument falls apart since no one goes around or believes that anyone should worship everything in God's creation. My devotion is to God's word, not the pages in the Book.
The Bible says the HS will "illuminate the scriptures" to us?!?
Well sure. That's what John 14 means:
John 14:25-26 : 25 "All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
The Holy Spirit does not teach new doctrine but shows us what Jesus has already said. Reminding includes clarification and correction.
FK: One cannot know what or how to pray without first knowing God's word.
Then Abraham could not know how to worship God!
No, he obviously learned about God and how to worship from those who came before him. That was not made up by men but given by God.
First, Christ was a Jew and He taught Judaism, which is works-based.
No, He criticized the Jews who did believe in a works-based model. What did Jesus say the work of God was??? Did Jesus get that one wrong because He suffered from the same error as many others?
Then the faith doesn't come from God, but from the Bible. Yet you believe Paul who says he knew Christ in a flash!
Faith and the Bible BOTH come from God. Paul knowing Christ also came from God. There is no contradiction.
FK: One cannot pray without first receiving God's grace. That grace will lead a believer to want to know God's word.
But a few lines before than you write: "One cannot know what or how to pray without first knowing God's word." So, now it's grace?
First comes grace. Then one learns what to have faith in. Then one has faith. The overall point is that if one prays from "nothing" then it is not going to be heard by God.
But, let's say you receive grace without the word. In other words you believe, right?
No, because what do you believe IN? Grace irresistibly leads to faith. If God sometimes gives enough of His word in a zapping of grace to save someone through immediate faith, then that's fine with me. I just don't see that as the typical case. That's all I mean.
Where does it say in the Bible that, in addition to grace (grace is not sufficient!) we need to read the Bible in order to know what to believe in?
I am not talking about literacy. I am talking about having enough information to know and CONFESS what it is that one believes. That information is contained in God's word, however it is transmitted.