So, you toss Matt. 4:4 because you say there wasn't a witness there suitable to you? OK. I am sure you have it on good authority that Christ never recounted what happened to Him to His disciples.
Second, Matthew is quoting from the Septuagint. If you check the Hebrew Bible, it says every thing (not every word). It is the Greek Septuagint that introduces the "word," but not the Hebrew version. The Hebrew version says nothing about a "word of God." It says every thing that wells from God.
Ah, so for this we need to toss the Septuagint and take up the Hebrew OT. I see. Should we accept the Septuagint in every other case, or will you let me know about the exceptions as we go along? :) In any case, every "thing" that wells from God obviously includes the word of God.
This alleged "quote" was taken from Deuteronomy 8:3, and in the context of the OT chapter that follows it is clear that we are not speaking of "words" of God, but of God being a source (orifice from which proceeds everything of what) we need.
I have no idea what kind of distinction you are trying to make. I'll grant that you are working very hard to get rid of "word", but it's not working. While the Hebrew did not have word, the same Hebrew has no problem with "that proceedeth out of the mouth of the Lord". Adding "word" only makes sense. It is tortured reasoning to suppose it doesn't.
The second part of your post here says "So, if one wants his life to be nourished by God, he MUST [sic] know the scriptures himself." It sure sounds like the man is deciding. Was this a slip?
No slip, God will make sure that His children know Him by leading them to know something of His word.
Is it not the Bible which you worship, by your own admission, that says the Holy Spirit will teach you everything you need to know?
When you refer to my agreeing that I "worship the Bible" you have to include the definition that we agreed upon. That is "devotion to God's word". Otherwise, readers will get confused. By this same type of definition, of course you will be fine with my saying that you worship Mary, by your own admission. And since I do not pray to the Bible, that would make your worship of Mary all the stronger.
And yes, the Holy Spirit will teach us everything we need to know. He will illuminate the scriptures to us so that we will understand what we need.
And do you not think that God will nourish you spiritually if you simply pray?
One cannot know what or how to pray without first knowing God's word.
Is it not Jesus who is quoted as saying that whatever we ask (in good faith) will be granted?
We can't know how to ask in good faith without first knowing God's word. God can always make special dispensations for people on desert islands, etc., but I am talking about in the normal course.
Is it not the same Bible you worship that says in the OT that those who obey God's commandments will be taken care of?
We can't know what God's Commandments are without first knowing God's word. Again, you are espousing a works-ONLY salvation model. The Bible does not teach that. Rather, it teaches a faith-ONLY salvation model.
Where does it say that anyone "must" know the Scriptures in order to believe or to be spiritually sustained?
Barring a special dispensation, one cannot know what he believes IN without first knowing the word of God.
It seems to me, you place the Bible before prayers and seem to think that one cannot pray without knowing the Bible.
One cannot pray without first receiving God's grace. That grace will lead a believer to want to know God's word. God's word will teach the believer how to pray such that all of his prayers will be heard.
Our connection to God is through prayer FK. It can be even without words! If God is the Comforter, what words are "necessary" to feel His love?
I still do not understand why you are going to such lengths to try to show that God's word is unnecessary. God's word shows who God IS. Barring a special dispensation, one may as well pray to a head of lettuce as to "God" without God's word. That's where blind faith leads.
Sure, we are connected to God through prayer. But blind prayer to no one in particular is of no use when one intentionally turns his back on God's word.
FK: So, you toss Matt. 4:4 because you say there wasn't a witness there suitable to you? OK. I am sure you have it on good authority that Christ never recounted what happened to Him to His disciples.
Now you are saying that Jesus boasted for having resisted evil? That's rather out of character, wouldn't you say?
There are other issues with this chapter in Matthew, Luke and Mark. According to one, Jesus was now "full of the Holy Spirit" (cf Luke 4:1). When was Jesus not full of the Holy Spirit? Before Baptism? And, immediately after the Baptism, the Spirit casts/drives (ekkbalei) Him out into the the wilderness! (cf Mark 1:12) Imagine that! The Spirit is ordering The Son around!
And for what purpose? To be tempted by the devil. And James, which you consider infallible scripture, tells us that God cannot be tempted by evil, and [God] Himself does not tempt anyone (cf James 1:13). So, the only "rational" conclusion is that Jesus must not be God!
Even if we are to assume that the temptation was to apply only to His human nature. it is still an oxymoron, because regardless of His hypostatic union, He is still God and as God cannot be tempted because His human nature was never in conflict with His divine nature.
Obviously, these manuscripts show that Jesus was perceived as human (the "Son of God" part being understood as he Jewish messiah, a human being favored by God, but not divine).
This was nevertheless necessary because the Old Testament says that God rules the earth, whereas the NT says Satan does! * This is ushering not only the morality of resisting evil but also a new theology.
*Matthew 4:8-0, Luke 4:5-7, John 12:31, 14:30, 16:11, 2 Cor 4:4 although Matthew and Luke contradict themselves, as per Mat 11:25, and Luke 10:21.
No, but it's translation is not equivalent to the Hebrew version. I don't know which is right. In both cases the word "word" is not in the Bible; that much we can be sure of.
While the Hebrew did not have word, the same Hebrew has no problem with "that proceedeth out of the mouth of the Lord". Adding "word" only makes sense. It is tortured reasoning to suppose it doesn't
If it were supposed to be "mouth" rather than "source." Otherwise it makes no sense to say "everything!" What else but the words would come out of God's mouth?!? His breath? But that's all anthropomorphism, I hope you realize that. If the Spirit is God's "breath," than what is the Son? Where did He come from? Does everything that comes out of God come out of His "mouth?" This is like discussing the and the Seven Dwarfs! Some people just take the whole thing too literally!
FK, you said "So, if one wants his life to be nourished by God, he MUST know the scriptures himself." Why MUST he? Where is God quoted as saying man MUST know the scriptures himself?
When you refer to my agreeing that I "worship the Bible" you have to include the definition that we agreed upon. That is "devotion to God's word". Otherwise, readers will get confused. By this same type of definition, of course you will be fine with my saying that you worship Mary, by your own admission. And since I do not pray to the Bible, that would make your worship of Mary all the stronger
But this can't be just devotion, FK. You treat the Bible as perfect, complete—by definition, divine because it is the word of God. And anything that comes from God is divine in essence, including His holy words. And that which is divine (in essence) is God and is worshiped.
No Orthodox or Catholic will say that Mary is divine. It is just that she chose not to sin better than others. Otherwise, she is fully human, capable of sin, mortal, and in need of a Savior. The Orthodox and Catholics have a devotion to Mary, but anyone who considers the Bible to be perfect and divine in essence goes beyond devotion and enters into idolatry.
And yes, the Holy Spirit will teach us everything we need to know. He will illuminate the scriptures to us so that we will understand what we need.
The Bible says the HS will "illuminate the scriptures" to us?!?
One cannot know what or how to pray without first knowing God's word.
Then Abraham could not know how to worship God!
But we do know form the Bible that even the earliest humans gave thanks to God. And that's what the Orthodox and Catholic Christians do to this very day! Gratitude is worship, giving praise or glory (doxa) to God.
We can't know how to ask in good faith without first knowing God's word.
Ask? Is this what this is all about? What's in it for me? Who says that prayer is asking and not giving? Fasting is prayer. And fasting is giving. Devoting times three times a day to remember the Lord and give thanks at meals is prayer. The only thing one should ask is for Him to have mercy on us, and for that you don't need the Bible. People were in awe of God's power and glory even before anything was written.
God can always make special dispensations for people on desert islands, etc., but I am talking about in the normal course.
What "normal" course, FK? God did not distribute the bibles to everyone and said "read it!"
We can't know what God's Commandments are without first knowing God's word. Again, you are espousing a works-ONLY salvation model. The Bible does not teach that. Rather, it teaches a faith-ONLY salvation model.
First, Christ was a Jew and He taught Judaism, which is works-based. You can't love God without knowing the Bible? Is that in the Bible?
Barring a special dispensation, one cannot know what he believes IN without first knowing the word of God.
Then the faith doesn't come from God, but form the Bible. Yet you believe Paul who says he knew Christ in a flash!
One cannot pray without first receiving God's grace. That grace will lead a believer to want to know God's word.
But a few lines before than you write: "One cannot know what or how to pray without first knowing God's word." So, now it's grace? But, let's say you receive grace without the word. In other words you believe, right? Isn't that what grace gives us? Faith? Where does it say in the Bible that, in addition to grace (grace is not sufficient!) we need to read the Bible in order to know what to believe in?