No I don't, because the only thing that is objective about the Bible is that it is a book. Its spiritual veracity is not objective.
Does the Orthodox Church represent objective truth?
FK: If in your view you put Andrea Yates and Joshua in the same boat, then I don't think there is anything I can do to overcome that.
You mean, in that they murdered because (allegedly) a loving God told them so? Yeah, I do put that on the same level of insanity.
So, God's hand-picked, right-hand man to Moses was comparable to Andrea Yates. OK. I guess Moses was also a crazy man since he ordered Joshua to kill people:
Ex 17:8-14 : 8 The Amalekites came and attacked the Israelites at Rephidim. 9 Moses said to Joshua , "Choose some of our men and go out to fight the Amalekites. Tomorrow I will stand on top of the hill with the staff of God in my hands."
10 So Joshua fought the Amalekites as Moses had ordered, and Moses, Aaron and Hur went to the top of the hill. 11 As long as Moses held up his hands, the Israelites were winning, but whenever he lowered his hands, the Amalekites were winning. 12 When Moses' hands grew tired, they took a stone and put it under him and he sat on it. Aaron and Hur held his hands up — one on one side, one on the other — so that his hands remained steady till sunset. 13 So Joshua overcame the Amalekite army with the sword.
14 Then the Lord said to Moses, "Write this on a scroll as something to be remembered and make sure that Joshua hears it, because I will completely blot out the memory of Amalek from under heaven."
This is the same crazy, murdering Moses about whom Jesus said:
John 5:46 : If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me.
So here, you have Jesus supporting, in the Gospels, a man you put in the same league with Andrea Yates. OK.
Kosta: Maybe one day you will realize that the world starts with us and that what is true to us is not necessarily the objective truth.
FK: And that is the HEART of Renaissance thinking.
Goodness, without the Renaissance we wouldn't be having this discussion! Let's not forget that the Protestant Reformation was born in the middle of it and that without the renaissance the whole Lutheran movement would have been impossible.
Yes, I agree in principle. :) And the truth is that the Reformation movement directly opposed Renaissance philosophers. The Renaissance men were humanists who believed that man was autonomous and that the starting point for understanding the universe was man himself. Naturally, the Catholic Church was heavily on the side of the Renaissance thinkers. The Apostolic Church rejected the idea of the complete Fall, and added the element of man's inner goodness. Francis Schaeffer said it well in his book "Escape From Reason":
"In the Roman Catholic position there was a decided work of salvation - Christ died for our salvation, but man had to merit the merit of Christ. Thus there was a humanistic element involved. The Reformers said that there is nothing man can do; no autonomous or humanistic religious or moral effort of man can help. One is saved only on the basis of the finished work of Christ as He died in space and time in history, and the only way to be saved is to raise the empty hands of faith and, by God's grace, to accept God's free gift - faith alone. It was Scripture alone and faith alone."
Renaissance thinkers could not accept this because anything other than man was in control. The Catholic Church naturally went along for the ride. While that period saw amazing production in the artistic areas of painting, music, literature, sculpture, etc., and even science, their own narcissism led their theology over the edge. For God's owns reasons, at that time He decided to right the ship and formalize Reformation theology.
[Continued on next post]
To the believers, the teaching of the Orthodox Church represents the spiritual truth taught by our Lord Jesus Christ.
So, God's hand-picked, right-hand man to Moses was comparable to Andrea Yates
Yes. People who kill because "God told them to" are insane. Every jihadist nut case believes he is doing "God's" will by blowing up pizza parlors and will tell you that in heaven he will receive many rewards for doing "God's" work on earth.
John 5:46 : If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me.
I will ask you again (because this is not the first time you use this verse) where does Moses write about Jesus?
So here, you have Jesus supporting, in the Gospels, a man you put in the same league with Andrea Yates.
A murder is a murder, FK.
Francis Schaeffer said it well in his book "Escape From Reason"...the only way to be saved is to raise the empty hands of faith and, by God's grace, to accept God's free gift - faith alone. It was Scripture alone and faith alone."
Francis Schaeffer, again? There is nothing Jesus taught in what he wrote here! Nothing. Certainly not faith alone and scripture alone.
Renaissance thinkers could not accept this because anything other than man was in control
Oh, that is so banal, FK. Renaissance thinkers realized that God gave us a playground and we are free to discover everything about it, to use something we can rely on, reason, and experiment, to make out lives better, to better humanity by providing comfort and abundance of food and other necessities. Renaissance gave birth to printing presses and Bible books without which Luther's Deformation would have been without a basis. What good would have been the books if 1% of the population could read? But thanks to Renaissance, people took up learning and which led to greater literacy. he result being more Bibles along with literacy!