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To: Forest Keeper

Okay, I will grant that Joseph said that God used evil to accomplish good. But if we go from the OT to the New, Jesus speaks of Judgement and punishment for the evils that men do, not the doing of evil for good purposes.

The Crucifixion would have happened with or without lies, deceit, false trials etc. Did they not happen on a fairly regular basis anyway (I mean lies, deceit, false trials)?


6,488 posted on 07/14/2008 9:06:52 AM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: MarkBsnr; kosta50; stfassisi; irishtenor; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock; wmfights; Alamo-Girl
Okay, I will grant that Joseph said that God used evil to accomplish good. But if we go from the OT to the New, Jesus speaks of Judgment and punishment for the evils that men do, not the doing of evil for good purposes.

Yes, that's true. I don't think at all that Joseph's brothers were "rewarded" for the evil that they did. God just used it. In addition, we have to remember that your side and mine have a fundamental disagreement on whether there is a such judgment solely for "reward" in Heaven. My understanding is that Apostolics believe there is only one subject of judgment, Heaven or hell. We believe there is another that is apart from that, to determine our rewards in Heaven based on our works.

The Crucifixion would have happened with or without lies, deceit, false trials etc. Did they not happen on a fairly regular basis anyway (I mean lies, deceit, false trials)?

WHAT??? :) Tell me how Jesus could have been legitimately tried and convicted of [name your crime] and then warranted the ultimate death penalty. How could that have POSSIBLY happened?

I am sure that the Romans DID put real live murderers, etc., to death for their crimes, and I also have no problem believing that some were put to death wrongfully. That's irrelevant. The point is that in Jesus' case virtually EVERY rule on the books was broken. That took an incredible amount of sin that could not have been coincidental. Jesus prayed for the cup to be taken away while still a free man, before any of this started. God's WILL clearly was for all of it to proceed as it did. It HAD to, for this was the MOST innocent man who ever lived! :)

6,495 posted on 07/15/2008 3:28:52 AM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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