***Oh I see, we are back to not speaking the same language, FK. Look up the definition of a “want” or a “need” and you will see that it they are inseparably connected to each other.
I NEED food and water. I WANT a 1959 Cadillac (not pink). You don’t see any difference here?***
Different uses of the word ‘want’.
desire: feel or have a desire for; want strongly; “I want to go home now”; “I want my own room”
privation: a state of extreme poverty
have need of; “This piano wants the attention of a competent tuner”
hunt or look for; want for a particular reason; “Your former neighbor is wanted by the FBI”; “Uncle Sam wants you”
lack: the state of needing something that is absent or unavailable; “there is a serious lack of insight into the problem”; “water is the critical deficiency in desert regions”; “for want of a nail the shoe was lost”
need: anything that is necessary but lacking; “he had sufficient means to meet his simple needs”; “I tried to supply his wants”
wish or demand the presence of; “I want you here at noon!”
be without, lack; be deficient in; “want courtesy”; “want the strength to go on living”; “flood victims wanting food and shelter”
wish: a specific feeling of desire; “he got his wish”; “he was above all wishing and desire”
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
The use of the word ‘want’ by kosta is defined by 2, 3 and 5.
***However, it is clear that He wants us to be here, else He would not have created, and that He wants to save His elect to be with Him in Heaven.***
Clarify if you would, with the logic just demonstrated, how the elect is not defined as the entire human population. If you would, please.
***But here they are not OUR words, they are God’s words given to us as His choice for us to understand according to our limitations. Of course we can’t understand on God’s level, but we CAN meaningfully understand on the level God has given us.***
In an orderly progessive fashion, to the abilities of humans to absorb that information.
***Of course God wants us to understand. Why else would He bother to communicate with us (if you believe that He does)? I want my dog to understand content to the best of his capability. Why would God want less for us?***
We are not dogs. God wants for all mankind to love Him with all our hearts, minds and souls. Dogs cannot. God gives us the ability to understand and the information to understand.
If your dog does not wish to understand or is incapable, do you whip out your .44 magnum and blow his head off? To carry the analogy to the next level, why would God do the figurative same to us if we cannot understand Him or love Him as He wishes?
I acknowledge that it is POSSIBLE for the uses of "want" and "need" to bleed into each other, however I am obviously talking about normal usage in the English language. I was defending an attack against Reformed theology asserting that God has need of evil. In common usage, one reasonable conclusion would be that the Reformed believe that God is subservient to some invented "need" for evil, so, I had to reveal the fallacy of that assertion. I understood that the intent of the attack was semantic, and so I defended accordingly. No problem.
FK: ***However, it is clear that He wants us to be here, else He would not have created, and that He wants to save His elect to be with Him in Heaven.***
Clarify if you would, with the logic just demonstrated, how the elect is not defined as the entire human population. If you would, please.
Certainly! :) Here are a few passages:
Rom 8:28-30 : 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. (Are there others besides the elect who are foreknown, predestined, conformed to the likeness of Christ, called, justified, and glorified? I just don't think so.)
Matt 24:22-24 : 22 If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. 24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect — if that were possible. (Clearly Jesus teaches that some are elect and some are not.)
Rom 11:7 : What then? What Israel sought so earnestly it did not obtain, but the elect did. (Obviously drawing a distinction between the unrighteous Jews and the elect.)
Titus 1:1 : Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ for the faith of God's elect and the knowledge of the truth that leads to godliness— (Only God's elect have [true] faith.)
Isa 45:4 : For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me. KJV (Only "Israel" is God's elect.)
Isa 65:9 : And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there. KJV (Only the elect WILL inherit from God. We know not everyone does.)
1 Peter 1:1-2 : 1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. KJV (The elect are not everyone, they are strangers to the world and chosen by God from the foundations.)
There simply can be no argument that the Bible clearly distinguishes between the elect and all men.
FK: ***Of course God wants us to understand. Why else would He bother to communicate with us (if you believe that He does)? I want my dog to understand content to the best of his capability. Why would God want less for us?***
We are not dogs. God wants for all mankind to love Him with all our hearts, minds and souls. Dogs cannot. God gives us the ability to understand and the information to understand. (emphasis added)
Yes, God gives this ability to the elect. At the least you and I agree that God desires for and does in fact give us understanding. I read Kosta to be arguing against that idea.
If your dog does not wish to understand or is incapable, do you whip out your .44 magnum and blow his head off?
Not yet, for it does not please me.
To carry the analogy to the next level, why would God do the figurative same to us if we cannot understand Him or love Him as He wishes?
As I foreshadowed, comparatively what matters are God's choices, not our performances. God gives saving grace to His sheep, but not all are His sheep. He knows that there is nothing the non-sheep can do, but those were His wishes anyway. Those are His affairs and I do not question Him. My response is to be VERY thankful and VERY sheepish. :)