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To: Dr. Eckleburg; Forest Keeper; HarleyD; wmfights; irishtenor; MarkBsnr; stfassisi; xzins; ...
As a Presbyterian, I believe the church still has elected elders

Too bad you don't recognize their apostolic authority.

These elected elders govern the earthly body of the church

Correct.

they do not dispense God's grace

Agree.

they are not infallible in any way

Agree.

are not "another Christ"

No they are not "another " Christ, but they are the icons (an image) of Christ. (we don't worship images)

they are not required to remain in some kind of anti-life monasticism

Agree that they are not required. Those who live monastic lives do so on their own choice. Monastic life is not anti-life; it's probably closer to what we will be doing in heaven. :)

and they are not the final authority which belongs to God and His word alone

True. The problem is who interprets the word of God? Every Tom, Dick and Harriette?

According to God's word..."For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." -- Matthew 18:20

Random verse generator again. That verse says nothing about the authority. You are quoting out of context.That verse has been quoted and re-quoted ad nauseum. What does it mean? That Christ requires a "quorum?" One believer is not enough?

Christ is making a reference (Mat 18:16)

Every fact? We won't go into this sweeping generalization now, but it's rather naïve to believe that this is so

which comes from Deut 19:16 which reads

And in verse 17 Christ says

In other words, excommunicate them! Also, so much for including Gentles in the "branch" of Israel.

And then he says (Mat 18:18)

Whoa!! WHO is He talking to? The crowds? Naw. Oh no, He is talking to the disciples (verse 1), not Tom, Dick and Harriette. He just gave the all the keys to bind and loosen, and promises that whatever they (the select ones, the clergy) bind on earth shall be bound in heaven.

So, when a priest blesses you, he is not dispensing grace; the heaven is, because Christ promised it to his priesthood. If you don't believe it, then you don;t believe the entire Bible. Welcome to the club! :)

So, then your verse (20) in context is in relation to the clergy because He makes the distinction between them and the whole Church (v.17).

5,751 posted on 05/23/2008 9:19:36 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; Dr. Eckleburg; Forest Keeper; HarleyD; wmfights; irishtenor; xzins
Too bad you don't recognize their apostolic authority.

Why would she? They don't have any "special authority" and most of what they proclaim is not Scriptural, such as this blasphemy that they have the power of God to "bind and loosen".

Mark 2:7 Why does this Man speak blasphemies like this? Who can forgive sins but God alone?

The hierarchy of the EO and RCC are no different than the scribes of Jesus' day.

He just gave the all the keys to bind and loosen, and promises that whatever they (the select ones, the clergy) bind on earth shall be bound in heaven.

Just self serving institutional nonsense.

What is the Key to the Kingdom?

What happens to those that have the Key?

What happens to those that do not have the Key?

5,790 posted on 05/24/2008 9:11:02 AM PDT by wmfights (Believe - THE GOSPEL - and be saved)
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To: kosta50; wmfights; Forest Keeper; blue-duncan; 1000 silverlings; Uncle Chip; OLD REGGIE; HarleyD; ..
"For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." -- Matthew 18:20

Random verse generator again. That verse says nothing about the authority. You are quoting out of context.That verse has been quoted and re-quoted ad nauseum. What does it mean?

"Authority?"

I wonder if the RCs and EOs realize how often they use that word, "authority," as some kind of mystical moving van in their attempt to vacate the office of the Holy Spirit and replace it with all the moldy furniture of the magisterium and its doctrines of men.

Where one person is who has received God's grace through faith in Christ there is a member of Christ's church. Where two or more such people are gathered in His name there is Christ's church on earth; His congregation of believers. And "there am I in the midst of them."

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." -- John 14:26

"But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him." -- 1 John 2:27

Some men are taught by the Holy Spirit, and those men meet in a church to worship God in truth. Other men forsake the graciousness of God and attempt to assign the work of the Holy Spirit to a body of fallible men to dole out as they see fit.

5,794 posted on 05/24/2008 10:32:30 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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