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To: kosta50; Lord_Calvinus
Regarding Justification, Kosta said -””I can't vouch for the Catholics””

Here is a good explanation of our view.I doubt the Orthodox have much problem with it?

Justification(from the Most Theological Collection)

By justification we become sharers in the divine nature (2 Pet 1:4), which is the case since we are “God's children now:” (1 Jn. 3:2). Children partake of the nature of their Father. He has already given us the first payment or pledge, the Spirit, in our hearts (2 Cor 1:22). It is only because the veil of flesh is still with us that we cannot directly see Him, as we shall when it is removed, so that we see Him face to face 1 Cor 13:12). But now we are temples of the Holy Spirit who dwells within us (1 Cor 3:16 and 6:19). Even our bodies can be called a temple of the Spirit (1 Cor 6:19 again) though the full effect of it is to come in the future (Rom 8:19). The Spirit within us is transforming us to be a new creation (2 Cor 5:17; Gal 6:15) so that in the next life we shall see Him “face to face” (1 Cor 13:12). That means see Him directly. But when I see a human directly I do not take him into my mind, I take in an image. However in seeing God face to face, there can be no image, for images are finite; He is infinite. So He joins Himself directly to the soul or intellect, without even an image in between. Hence the need of real purity, for as Mal 23:2 says: “Who can stand when He appears? For He is like a refiner’s fire”.

Contrast this with being total corruption- which logically leads to what the Missouri Synod of Lutherans feared to face (Brief Doctrinal Position, 1932, #14. ) saying “As to the question why not all men are converted and saved, seeing that God's grace is universal and all men are equally and utterly corrupt, we confess that we cannot answer it.” They could have answered, from Luther's works, but refused to answer, for they saw it meant absolute blind predestination: if all are equally corrupt, there is nothing on which God could base a decision on who is saved, who is damned. But Luther Himself was not so reticent. He said (Bondage of the Will tr. J. Packer and O. Johnston, Revell, 1957, p. 273) a human has no free will and is like a horse. Either God or the devil will ride him - and so he does good or evil - but he has no choice who rides. Hence it is heaven or hell, without any choice on his part. (ibid. pp. 103-04).

Good Night

I wish you a Blessed Evening!

5,692 posted on 05/20/2008 6:32:31 PM PDT by stfassisi ( ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi))
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To: stfassisi; Lord_Calvinus; Kolokotronis
Regarding Justification, Kosta said -””I can't vouch for the Catholics”” Here is a good explanation of our view. I doubt the Orthodox have much problem with it? Justification(from the Most Theological Collection) By justification we become sharers in the divine nature (2 Pet 1:4)

STA, we may never become sharers of the divine nature lest we become divine. We can become like God through grace but never through nature (essence).

This is one of those theological divides between us, in addition to the concept of the "created" grace, that will be difficult to bridge.

The orthodox cocnept of "justification" is like night and day from that of the West. Priest Seraphim Johnson of Orthodox.info states

To the Eastern Orthodox, the juridical western concept of "justification" is alien. We are restored to our intended (correct) state, which is what God intended man to be: rational and virtuous being, i.e. in the image of God. That rational and virtuous being is not made Christ-like (restored to likeness to God) by faith alone, but by virtuous "fruits" (qualities, acts) by imitating Christ.

The Beatitudes in Matthew 5 specify what those virtues are, and there is not a shred of requirement for any faith in them!

Other than that, I don't see much to disagree with in that article; I just don't fully grasp what that 'justification' is. The way +Paul talks about it, it is sounds as being made "just" (innocent, not guilty) in the eyes of God."

"if all are equally corrupt, there is nothing on which God could base a decision on who is saved, who is damned."

The Bible clearly states that Job was a "perfect" man [in God's eyes], so it is clear that not all are equally corrupt.

But Luther Himself was not so reticent. He said (Bondage of the Will tr. J. Packer and O. Johnston, Revell, 1957, p. 273) a human has no free will and is like a horse. Either God or the devil will ride him - and so he does good or evil - but he has no choice who rides. Hence it is heaven or hell, without any choice on his part. (ibid. pp. 103-04).

But the Reformed will tell you that the devil is under God's control and when the devil rides someone it's because God decided that. Yet they will deny that God has anything to do with us committing sin. We are horses who have no will of our own, yet somehow we are "responsible" for our sins.

5,696 posted on 05/20/2008 10:27:31 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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