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To: stfassisi; Lord_Calvinus; Kolokotronis
Regarding Justification, Kosta said -””I can't vouch for the Catholics”” Here is a good explanation of our view. I doubt the Orthodox have much problem with it? Justification(from the Most Theological Collection) By justification we become sharers in the divine nature (2 Pet 1:4)

STA, we may never become sharers of the divine nature lest we become divine. We can become like God through grace but never through nature (essence).

This is one of those theological divides between us, in addition to the concept of the "created" grace, that will be difficult to bridge.

The orthodox cocnept of "justification" is like night and day from that of the West. Priest Seraphim Johnson of Orthodox.info states

To the Eastern Orthodox, the juridical western concept of "justification" is alien. We are restored to our intended (correct) state, which is what God intended man to be: rational and virtuous being, i.e. in the image of God. That rational and virtuous being is not made Christ-like (restored to likeness to God) by faith alone, but by virtuous "fruits" (qualities, acts) by imitating Christ.

The Beatitudes in Matthew 5 specify what those virtues are, and there is not a shred of requirement for any faith in them!

Other than that, I don't see much to disagree with in that article; I just don't fully grasp what that 'justification' is. The way +Paul talks about it, it is sounds as being made "just" (innocent, not guilty) in the eyes of God."

"if all are equally corrupt, there is nothing on which God could base a decision on who is saved, who is damned."

The Bible clearly states that Job was a "perfect" man [in God's eyes], so it is clear that not all are equally corrupt.

But Luther Himself was not so reticent. He said (Bondage of the Will tr. J. Packer and O. Johnston, Revell, 1957, p. 273) a human has no free will and is like a horse. Either God or the devil will ride him - and so he does good or evil - but he has no choice who rides. Hence it is heaven or hell, without any choice on his part. (ibid. pp. 103-04).

But the Reformed will tell you that the devil is under God's control and when the devil rides someone it's because God decided that. Yet they will deny that God has anything to do with us committing sin. We are horses who have no will of our own, yet somehow we are "responsible" for our sins.

5,696 posted on 05/20/2008 10:27:31 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; Kolokotronis
“”STA, we may never become sharers of the divine nature lest we become divine. We can become like God through grace but never through nature (essence).””

It's not that we become Divine,it's that God uses our Human nature to accomplish His Will.

We see this in the lives of the the Saints in the Miracles God works through them.Some examples are..Saint John Chrysostom, Irenaues, Padre Pio,Aquinas etc...

These miracles are physical heeling's, miracles of virtue and intellectual miracles -when the Holy Spirit enlightens the human mind

Of course we cannot provide a miracle,only God can do this and use our human nature if He wants. Thus we are sharing in this by God using our human nature and being “divinized” like the energizer bunny is being energized(sorry if this is a bad analogy,it's all me pea brain could think of)

Of course we cannot ever become Divine though.

Here is what the Catechism says...

CCC 1993 Justification establishes cooperation between God's grace and man's freedom. On man's part it is expressed by the assent of faith to the Word of God, which invites him to conversion, and in the cooperation of charity with the prompting of the Holy Spirit who precedes and preserves his assent:

When God touches man's heart through the illumination of the Holy Spirit, man himself is not inactive while receiving that inspiration, since he could reject it; and yet, without God's grace, he cannot by his own free will move himself toward justice in God's sight.

I would like to add a Eucharistic example from Saint Thomas Aquinas and Saint John Chrysostom....

“Material food first changes into the one who eats it, and then, as a consequence, restores to him lost strength and increases his vitality. Spiritual food, on the other hand, changes the person who eats it into itself. Thus the effect proper to this Sacrament is the con­ver­sion of a man into Christ, so that he may no longer live, but Christ lives in him; conse­quent­ly, it has the double effect of restoring the spiritual strength he had lost by his sins and defects, and of increasing the strength of his virtues.” St. Thomas, Commentary on Book IV of the Sentences, d.12, q.2, a.11

“How many in these times say: would that I could gaze upon His form, His figure, His garment, His shoes! Lo! Thou seest Him, touchest Him, eatest Him. He gives Himself to thee, not merely to look upon, but even to touch, to eat, and to receive within... Consider at whose table thou eatest! For we are fed with that which the angels view with trepidation and which they cannot contemplate without fear because of Its splendor. We become one with Him: we become one Body and one Flesh with Christ.”... “Jesus, for the burning love He bore us, wished to unite Himself so closely to us that we should become one and the same with Him for such is the dream of true lovers.”... “Holy Communion makes us eager for virtue and prompt to practice it, at the same time imparting deep peace, and thus rendering sweet and easy the road to holiness.” -Saint John Chrysostom

5,704 posted on 05/21/2008 7:44:44 AM PDT by stfassisi ( ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi))
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