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To: kosta50; Kolokotronis; irishtenor; blue-duncan; Mad Dawg; HarleyD; stfassisi; Dr. Eckleburg
FK, He never said He was God, as you claim.

I showed you scriptures that were self-explanatory. I showed you that He was crucified specifically for CLAIMING He was God. That's all I can do. :)

The term "son[s] of God" is also a title and does not mean someone divine. Luke uses it (3:38) for Adam, angels and those who are born again (20:36), as well as for Jesus. It is also a title used in the same manner as the word elect or chosen in the Old Testament. Thus, the OT refers to the Jews in general as sons of God, and the NT uses it for Christians (those who are tested/chastised) by God as in Heb 12:5-8.

So for you "Son of God" has no particularly important meaning as far as the Bible is concerned? I sure hope your priest wouldn't go for that. :) What is your theory as to why Christ would hide His identity from the people, as you claim? Jesus certainly spoke of His identity, so wouldn't that be a lie of omission?

So, what does moshiah or messiah mean in the context in which the Sanhedrin asked Jesus of he was the anointed son of God?

The word "moshiach" does not mean "savior." The notion of an innocent, divine or semi-divine being who will sacrifice himself to save us from the consequences of our own sins is a purely Christian concept that has no basis in Jewish thought. [Judaism 101, Moshiah]

So according to you, when Jesus said "YES", He was lying??? Or, did Jesus perhaps misunderstand the question? :)

5,572 posted on 05/15/2008 4:35:52 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper; Kolokotronis; irishtenor; blue-duncan; Mad Dawg; HarleyD; stfassisi; ...
I showed you scriptures that were self-explanatory. I showed you that He was crucified specifically for CLAIMING He was God

No you didn't, FK. You showed me scripture in which He is quoted as saying that He is the Son of God.

And I showed you scriptural evidence that the title "son(s) of God" or "child/children of God" was never used for anyone divine in the entire Bible.

According to Mark and Matthew, the Sanhedrin asked Jesus not only if He was the Son of God, but specifically if He was the anointed (Greek: cristoV, christos) Son of God, which was the title of the kings of Israel, to which He answered in the affirmative but produced no evidence to support it.

Specifically, the "anointed" or "favored by God" at that time was expected to be the messiah. Claiming to be the messiah (who, according to Judaic belief, is not divine), without supportive evidence, was blasphemy (i.e. gross disrespect) towards God for which Leviticus mandates death.

None of the Sanhedrin ever asked Jesus if He is God. None! And He never once said "Yes, I am God." He was not crucified because He claimed to be God. That is a Christian myth.

That doesn't mean that He is not God, the Messiah, the second Person of the Holy Trinity, fully divine and fully human, our Lord and Savior.

The Apostles came to realize His divinity (at least +John did), and the Church along with them, but it is clear that before He ascended to heaven, some of the 11 disciples still doubted it [Mat 28:17]!

So for you "Son of God" has no particularly important meaning as far as the Bible is concerned?

Of course it does! I am a Christain. I believe Jesus is the Incarnated eternal Word and Wisdom of God (Logos), the only-begotten of the Father, both divine and human, and "sitting" on the right side of the Father, who together with the Father and the Holy Spirit is worshiped and glorified, and who will return to judge the living and the dead.

What is your theory as to why Christ would hide His identity from the people, as you claim?

He didn't! Jesus said He was the Son of God. He meant it litteraly! But the Jews didn't. To the Jews (including the blessed Peter) the Son of God meant "man greatly favored by God" (you could say "full of grace" in the Christian jargon. In the Old Testament the Sons of God were were angels and the kings of Israel.

So according to you, when Jesus said "YES", He was lying???

Never. :)

5,583 posted on 05/16/2008 4:43:01 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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