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To: Forest Keeper; Kolokotronis; irishtenor; blue-duncan; Mad Dawg; HarleyD; stfassisi; ...
Yes, they sure did miss Him. Should that tell us that the OT is wrong or that they are wrong? I don't think we can measure the truth of something by how many people DON'T get it

But we can measure the truth by how many people claim they get something? Every sect and cult can (and does) use your argument, fallaciously I might add.

The Bible tells us in no uncertain terms that NO ONE will get any of it unless he has been given eyes to see and ears to hear by God

Again, an open argument for anyone to use. Everyone claims to have the "right" eyes and ears and inner knowledge (gnosis) others can't see or hear.

Isa 52:13-53:12 : 13 See, my servant will act wisely

Who is Isaiah's servant in context?

For what they were not told, they will see,and what they have not heard, they will understand.

For what they were not told, they will see,and what they have not heard, they will understand

Seems to me isaiah's is saying that one doesn't eyes and ears in order to understand.

IMO this OT passage perfectly describes what you are talking about. (And as an aside, note verse [Isa 53:]10!

Again, in context, who is Isaiah talking about?

Ah, but since hundreds of millions of Christians read the Gospels very faithfully and see no need for the rulership of the Orthodox Church in them, then I suppose that your Church would be unneeded for Christianity, like the OT?

So, the Church is wrong but inidvidual readers, who read gospels "faitfully," get it right? What evidence do you have for such a silly claim?

5,506 posted on 05/12/2008 5:18:39 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodox is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; Kolokotronis; irishtenor; blue-duncan; Mad Dawg; HarleyD; stfassisi; Dr. Eckleburg
But we can measure the truth by how many people claim they get something? Every sect and cult can (and does) use your argument, fallaciously I might add.

No, I never claimed that the converse was true. Truth is truth irrespective of how many people get it. So, your above is not my argument.

Isa 52:13-53:12 : 13 See, my servant will act wisely...

Who is Isaiah's servant in context?

Jesus is the Lord's servant. The whole passage is about the suffering servant. By extension, Jesus is the servant of all believers. He did not come here for Him, He came here for us.

[Is. 52:15] For what they were not told, they will see, and what they have not heard, they will understand

Seems to me Isaiah's is saying that one doesn't [need] eyes and ears in order to understand.

This isn't talking about becoming a believer, it is about recognizing what is obvious to the world. In the OT many lost people recognized the existence of the Jewish God, but did not believe on Him.

So, the Church is wrong but individual readers, who read gospels "faithfully," get it right? What evidence do you have for such a silly claim?

As always, I have God-breathed scriptures as my evidence. I realize not everyone accepts that evidence as true. A personal Holy Spirit has a personal relationship with personal believers.

5,531 posted on 05/13/2008 11:10:44 AM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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