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To: kosta50; Kolokotronis; irishtenor; blue-duncan; Mad Dawg; HarleyD; stfassisi; Dr. Eckleburg
But we can measure the truth by how many people claim they get something? Every sect and cult can (and does) use your argument, fallaciously I might add.

No, I never claimed that the converse was true. Truth is truth irrespective of how many people get it. So, your above is not my argument.

Isa 52:13-53:12 : 13 See, my servant will act wisely...

Who is Isaiah's servant in context?

Jesus is the Lord's servant. The whole passage is about the suffering servant. By extension, Jesus is the servant of all believers. He did not come here for Him, He came here for us.

[Is. 52:15] For what they were not told, they will see, and what they have not heard, they will understand

Seems to me Isaiah's is saying that one doesn't [need] eyes and ears in order to understand.

This isn't talking about becoming a believer, it is about recognizing what is obvious to the world. In the OT many lost people recognized the existence of the Jewish God, but did not believe on Him.

So, the Church is wrong but individual readers, who read gospels "faithfully," get it right? What evidence do you have for such a silly claim?

As always, I have God-breathed scriptures as my evidence. I realize not everyone accepts that evidence as true. A personal Holy Spirit has a personal relationship with personal believers.

5,531 posted on 05/13/2008 11:10:44 AM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper; Kolokotronis; irishtenor; blue-duncan; Mad Dawg; HarleyD; stfassisi; ...
You wrote (5503): I don't think we can measure the truth of something by how many people DON'T get it

To which I replied: But we can measure the truth by how many people claim they get something? Every sect and cult can (and does) use your argument, fallaciously I might add

To which you respond: No, I never claimed that the converse was true. Truth is truth irrespective of how many people get it. So, your above is not my argument

If the first is true, then the second is true also. The truth is truth irrespective of how many people (claim to) get it or don't get it, FK.

If the Muslims find Mohammad in Isaiah doesn't mean it's there. If Jews and Christians don't get it doesn't make them wrong either.

Kosta: Who is Isaiah's servant in context?

FK: Jesus is the Lord's servant

Some believe Israel (the people of God) are the servant. They believe the passage in Isaiah is about Israel, not one person.

In the OT many lost people recognized the existence of the Jewish God, but did not believe on Him

I said "understand," not "believe."

Kosta: So, the Church is wrong but individual readers, who read gospels "faithfully," get it right? What evidence do you have for such a silly claim?

As always, I have God-breathed scriptures as my evidence. I realize not everyone accepts that evidence as true. A personal Holy Spirit has a personal relationship with personal believers.

You have evidence that the Church is "wrong?" Whatever it is that you claim is evidence doesn't explain why is the Church subject to error and the individual reader is immune to it!

5,547 posted on 05/14/2008 2:31:59 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodox is pure Christianity)
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