Replies

FK: "IF you believe in an all-powerful God, then how can you say He loves everyone equally, if something as important as Heaven vs. hell for eternity is largely decided by luck? You can't."

And if you believe in a transcendent God then why does it matter if it took 2,000 years; His salvation should be timeless. And if you believe in predestination and God's plan then it must have been planned to take this long...

His salvation IS timeless and everything HAS gone according to plan. But what I'm saying is that the facts on the ground DO match the Reformed view, but they do not match the Apostolic view. We DO NOT say that God loves everyone equally. He chose from among all the people who would be saved and who would not be. However, if God loves everyone equally, then the facts on the ground do not match. The Church has never come close to reaching everyone, thus giving everyone a "fair" chance. Plus, if you see luck and environment as strong determining factors, then that would also seem to violate the "fairness" that Apostolics claim God's system employs.

After all, isn't it the Evangelicals who love Israel because they expect the Jews to convert to Christ? Are your pastors trying to evangelize the Jews and Arabs? I think they are a lot closer to Christ, being Abrahamic, then the Chinese.

I know we are trying to reach Arabs in the countries we can get into, meaning not countries like Saudi Arabia so much, and obviously Iran. And yes, we also have missionaries in Israel. I don't think my particular church has been involved with that so much, but I know it is done through the Southern Baptist Convention.

I'm not sure how many people "like" Israel for eschatological reasons. I've never thought of it like that. I like Israel because they are an anchor of democracy in a troubled part of the world and I also agree with them that they have a right to exist.

We DO NOT say that God loves everyone equally. He chose from among all the people who would be saved and who would not be. However, if God loves everyone equally, then the facts on the ground do not match

FK, God "...causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous" [Mat 5:45]. God is impertial. It is the people, some who love God and others who don't. Those who come to Him are saved; those who don't are lost.

And yes, we also have missionaries in Israel

Here is a excerpt from a 1997 CNN article:

JERUSALEM (CNN) -- The dwindling number of Christians in the Holy Land are facing yet another threat. Militant Jews and Israelis are trying to force members of the religion from seeking converts in the country. Most alarming to Christians is a newly proposed law that would let authorities jail anyone who shares Christian literature."

Seems to me they are not making a very good impression.

The Eangelicals don't even hide that they are interested in Israel for eschatological reasons. Other's speak of the Jews as "God's people." And the rest of humanity is what? God's refuse?

Israel is a democracy and that's good, but it has been anything but a stabilizing factor. While I certainly think Israel has a right to exist for humanitarian reasons, that state was proclaimed in violation of the UN Charter and international law. It was created by ethinic cleansing of Arab areas, sending hundreds of thousands of local Arabs into exile. Illegitimacy never becomes legitimate, especially not by illegitimate means.