While I agree that no one can know who the predestined are, I don't think Paul ever said that being predestined and "receiving" election were separate things. Paul says they are one thing: Eph 1:4-5 : 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will—... Rom 8:29-30 : 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those he predestined , he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. I don't see any option here for one predestined to not be elect. Paul says that God will do this, this, and this. I see no hint at "as long as man does this...". So, I would say that the chosen don't "do" anything to receive election. God does all the doing, both in choosing the elect and then in effectuating the salvation of the elect within time.
And when were the souls created, Moses does NOT describe the creation of the soul, what Moses says is that the dirt, clay, flesh being was NOT living until the 'breath of life' which means soul was breathed into that newly formed flesh being made in the image of the Heavenly Father.
Good question. I'm not certain whether God is carrying around a "bag-o-souls" that He created before the foundations, waiting to dish them out at the time of conception, OR, whether He technically creates the soul at the time of conception. In either case we can know that God KNEW us before we physically existed: Jer 1:4-5 : 4 The word of the Lord came to me, saying, 5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you , before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations." We are no accidents. Long before He breathed life into us He knew exactly what His intentions were for each one of us. To me that FUNCTIONS as the same as our souls existing from creation. The mechanics really don't matter.
I am not sure what you mean when you say The mechanics really don't matter. Paul describes what I would call mechanics in Romans 9:10 - 17 regarding a history prior to this flesh age. There is no other way that it could be said that the Heavenly Father in an instant created a soul say like Esau or Pharaoh for the purpose of being hated without cause. This goes against everything that the rest of the WORD has to say about the perfection of the creation.
Peter says there were/are three different heaven/earth ages.. IIPeter 3 the whole chapter to maintain the subject. Moses does not describe the creation of Lucifer in his perfect creation in Genesis, yet both Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 give an in depth description of Lucifer, his creation and his fall. There is NO record within the Bible or in history that describes the rebellion of Lucifer wherein a third of the sons of God followed him.
King Solomon writes in Ecclesiastes 1:9 that The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be: and that which is done is that which shall be: and there is no new thing under the sun.
10 Is there any thing whereof it may be said, 'See this is new?' it hath been already of *old* time, which was before us.
11 There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.
Each soul is given opportunity to come from above (John 3:3) to be born of woman, as did Christ, in God with us, and there were some that refused which are noted in Genesis 6, and the Book of Jude, among other places, not named but already sentenced to death along with the devil.
Saint Aquinas explains these types of situations, like Pharaoh
That God is Cause of Sin to no Man
THOUGH there are some sinners whom God does not convert to Himself, but leaves them in their sins according to their deserts, still He does not induce them to sin.
1. Men sin by deviating from God their last end. But as every agent acts to its own proper and befitting end, it is impossible for God's action to avert any from their ultimate end in God.
2. Good cannot be the cause of evil, nor God the cause of sin.
3. All the wisdom and goodness of man is derived from the wisdom and goodness of God, being a likeness thereof. But it is repugnant to the wisdom and goodness of man to make any one to sin: therefore much more to divine wisdom and goodness.
4. A fault always arises from some defect of the proximate agent, not from any defect of the prime agent. Thus the fault of limping comes from some defect of the shin-bone, not from the locomotor power, from which power however is whatever perfection of movement appears in the limping. But the proximate agent of human sin is the will. The sinful defect then is from the will of man, not from God, who is the prime agent, of whom however is whatever point of perfect action appears in the act of sin.*
Hence it is said: Say not, He himself hath led me astray: for he hath no use for sinful men: He hath commanded none to do impiously, and he hath not given to any man license to sin (Ecclus xv, 12, 21): Let none, when he is tempted, say that he is tempted by God: for God tempteth no man to evil (James i, 13).
Still there are passages of Scripture, from which it might seem that God is to some men the cause of sin. Thus it is said: I have hardened the heart of Pharaoh and his servants (Exod. x, 1): Blind the heart of this people, and make its ears dull, and close its eyes, lest perchance it see with its eyes, and be converted, and I heal it: Thou hast made us wander from thy ways: Thou hast hardened our heart, that we should not fear thee (Isai. vi, 10: lxiii, 17): God delivered them over to a reprobate sense, to do those things which are not seemly (Rom. i, 28). All these passages are to be understood as meaning that God does not bestow on some the help for avoiding sin which He bestows on others. This help is not merely the infusion of grace, but also an exterior guardianship, whereby the occasions of sin are providentially removed from a man's path. God also aids man against sin by the natural light of reason, and other natural goods that He bestows on man.* When then He withdraws these aids from some, as their conduct deserves that he should, according to the exigency of His justice, He is said to harden them, or to blind them.
I was just referring to the "when", within time, God creates a soul. I was saying that God's specific intention is "as good as" existence for purposes of this discussion. The passage you cite appears to support where I am coming from.
There is no other way that it could be said that the Heavenly Father in an instant created a soul say like Esau or Pharaoh for the purpose of being hated without cause. This goes against everything that the rest of the WORD has to say about the perfection of the creation.
Are you saying that Paul contradicts Christ? I am sorry if I am misunderstanding you.