While I agree that no one can know who the predestined are, I don't think Paul ever said that being predestined and "receiving" election were separate things. Paul says they are one thing:
Eph 1:4-5 : 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will—...
Rom 8:29-30 : 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those he predestined , he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
I don't see any option here for one predestined to not be elect. Paul says that God will do this, this, and this. I see no hint at "as long as man does this...". So, I would say that the chosen don't "do" anything to receive election. God does all the doing, both in choosing the elect and then in effectuating the salvation of the elect within time.
And when were the souls created, Moses does NOT describe the creation of the soul, what Moses says is that the dirt, clay, flesh being was NOT living until the 'breath of life' which means soul was breathed into that newly formed flesh being made in the image of the Heavenly Father.
Good question. I'm not certain whether God is carrying around a "bag-o-souls" that He created before the foundations, waiting to dish them out at the time of conception, OR, whether He technically creates the soul at the time of conception. In either case we can know that God KNEW us before we physically existed:
Jer 1:4-5 : 4 The word of the Lord came to me, saying, 5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you , before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."
We are no accidents. Long before He breathed life into us He knew exactly what His intentions were for each one of us. To me that FUNCTIONS as the same as our souls existing from creation. The mechanics really don't matter.
“Good question. I’m not certain whether God is carrying around a “bag-o-souls” that He created before the foundations, waiting to dish them out at the time of conception, OR, whether He technically creates the soul at the time of conception. In either case we can know that God KNEW us before we physically existed:
Jer 1:4-5 : 4 The word of the Lord came to me, saying, 5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you , before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”
We are no accidents. Long before He breathed life into us He knew exactly what His intentions were for each one of us. To me that FUNCTIONS as the same as our souls existing from creation. The mechanics really don’t matter.”
Close, FK, but watch that sloppy thinking in the last two sentences! Here are a couple of comments which lay out the position of The Church. The notion of the “pre-existence of souls”, btw, is heretical.
“We already existed before this world, because our creation was decided by God long before our actual creation. Before our creation we therefore existed in the thought of God, we who later turned out to be intelligent creatures of the Divine Word. Thanks to Him, we are very ancient in our origin, because ‘in the beginning was the Word.”
+Clement of Alexandria
“...the World-generating Reason also considered, in His mind’s great representations, the images of the world formed by Him, this world which was generated later, but, which, for God was present even then. Everything is before God’s eyes: what will be, what was, and what is now. For me such a division is set by time: that one thing is ahead, another thing behind. But for God all merges into one, and all is held in the arms of the Great Deity.”
+Gregory Nazianzus
While I agree that no one can know who the predestined are, I don't think Paul ever said that being predestined and "receiving" election were separate things. Paul says they are one thing: Eph 1:4-5 : 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will—... Rom 8:29-30 : 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those he predestined , he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. I don't see any option here for one predestined to not be elect. Paul says that God will do this, this, and this. I see no hint at "as long as man does this...". So, I would say that the chosen don't "do" anything to receive election. God does all the doing, both in choosing the elect and then in effectuating the salvation of the elect within time.
And when were the souls created, Moses does NOT describe the creation of the soul, what Moses says is that the dirt, clay, flesh being was NOT living until the 'breath of life' which means soul was breathed into that newly formed flesh being made in the image of the Heavenly Father.
Good question. I'm not certain whether God is carrying around a "bag-o-souls" that He created before the foundations, waiting to dish them out at the time of conception, OR, whether He technically creates the soul at the time of conception. In either case we can know that God KNEW us before we physically existed: Jer 1:4-5 : 4 The word of the Lord came to me, saying, 5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you , before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations." We are no accidents. Long before He breathed life into us He knew exactly what His intentions were for each one of us. To me that FUNCTIONS as the same as our souls existing from creation. The mechanics really don't matter.
I am not sure what you mean when you say The mechanics really don't matter. Paul describes what I would call mechanics in Romans 9:10 - 17 regarding a history prior to this flesh age. There is no other way that it could be said that the Heavenly Father in an instant created a soul say like Esau or Pharaoh for the purpose of being hated without cause. This goes against everything that the rest of the WORD has to say about the perfection of the creation.
Peter says there were/are three different heaven/earth ages.. IIPeter 3 the whole chapter to maintain the subject. Moses does not describe the creation of Lucifer in his perfect creation in Genesis, yet both Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 give an in depth description of Lucifer, his creation and his fall. There is NO record within the Bible or in history that describes the rebellion of Lucifer wherein a third of the sons of God followed him.
King Solomon writes in Ecclesiastes 1:9 that The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be: and that which is done is that which shall be: and there is no new thing under the sun.
10 Is there any thing whereof it may be said, 'See this is new?' it hath been already of *old* time, which was before us.
11 There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.
Each soul is given opportunity to come from above (John 3:3) to be born of woman, as did Christ, in God with us, and there were some that refused which are noted in Genesis 6, and the Book of Jude, among other places, not named but already sentenced to death along with the devil.