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To: Forest Keeper
Paul says there were some predestined to be chosen *before* the foundation of this world. The chosen are not necessarily those who most think they are.... So this brings forth the question what is it that those who *were* already chosen do, to receive this *election*? And when were the souls created, Moses does NOT describe the creation of the soul, what Moses says is that the dirt, clay, flesh being was NOT living until the 'breath of life' which means soul was breathed into that newly formed flesh being made in the image of the Heavenly Father. Also Adam first made, in the image of the Heavenly Father was placed into a deep sleep and a 'curve' removed from him to create woman.
5,267 posted on 05/01/2008 5:26:11 AM PDT by Just mythoughts (Isa.3:4 And I will give children to be their princes, and babes shall rule over them.)
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To: Just mythoughts; kosta50; Kolokotronis; stfassisi; HarleyD; Dr. Eckleburg
Paul says there were some predestined to be chosen *before* the foundation of this world. The chosen are not necessarily those who most think they are.... So this brings forth the question what is it that those who *were* already chosen do, to receive this *election*?

While I agree that no one can know who the predestined are, I don't think Paul ever said that being predestined and "receiving" election were separate things. Paul says they are one thing:

Eph 1:4-5 : 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will—...

Rom 8:29-30 : 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those he predestined , he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

I don't see any option here for one predestined to not be elect. Paul says that God will do this, this, and this. I see no hint at "as long as man does this...". So, I would say that the chosen don't "do" anything to receive election. God does all the doing, both in choosing the elect and then in effectuating the salvation of the elect within time.

And when were the souls created, Moses does NOT describe the creation of the soul, what Moses says is that the dirt, clay, flesh being was NOT living until the 'breath of life' which means soul was breathed into that newly formed flesh being made in the image of the Heavenly Father.

Good question. I'm not certain whether God is carrying around a "bag-o-souls" that He created before the foundations, waiting to dish them out at the time of conception, OR, whether He technically creates the soul at the time of conception. In either case we can know that God KNEW us before we physically existed:

Jer 1:4-5 : 4 The word of the Lord came to me, saying, 5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you , before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."

We are no accidents. Long before He breathed life into us He knew exactly what His intentions were for each one of us. To me that FUNCTIONS as the same as our souls existing from creation. The mechanics really don't matter.

5,306 posted on 05/03/2008 3:24:44 AM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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