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To: Forest Keeper; stfassisi; MarkBsnr; irishtenor; Mad Dawg; Kolokotronis; HarleyD; Dr. Eckleburg

Kosta: No, FK. Your theology teaches that God created man in order for him to commit sin and change his nature so all generations can be evil!

FK: LOL! No, that isn't what we teach, that's what you want to hear

Oh, pardon me. Is it not the Reformed teaching that God predestined them to sin? Was it not the will of the Reformed God that they sin? Was it not the purpose of the reformed God's creation of Adam and Eve that they sin? Did they have a choice (according to the Reformed theology)? Yet, somehow despite all that, it was they who willed their own sin! LOL indeed!

I suppose the Apostolic God just got caught with His pants down when Adam and Eve decided to sin

No, He knew that they would sin, but it wasn't His decision, desire or doing. It is essential for true love that man come to God freely and not be forced, even if that freedom carries the peril (for man) to wonder away from God. Those who come to God do so in pure heart. They are not forced or preprogrammed, or tricked, or hypnotized, or brainwashed.

Kosta: You don't even pray on your own, but because God predestined you to pray.

My DESIRE is not to do anything without God, i.e., on my own

How do you know that is your desire when you and all the Reformed claim that God changed your heart (without your consent), and the Holy Spirit hijacked your mind and soul?

5,082 posted on 04/23/2008 4:46:40 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodox is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; stfassisi; MarkBsnr; irishtenor; Mad Dawg; Kolokotronis; HarleyD; Dr. Eckleburg; ...
Is it not the Reformed teaching that God predestined them to sin? Was it not the will of the Reformed God that they sin?

God predestines everything that is a part of His plan. In some cases, that has included sin. God does not approve of sin as a general principle.

Was it not the purpose of the reformed God's creation of Adam and Eve that they sin?

No, none on my side have ever said that. Only your side says that. :)

Did they have a choice (according to the Reformed theology)?

Yes, but the conditions were such that it was inevitable that they would sin. God did not "move" them to sin. He set the conditions. We do not "blame" God for planting the tree, making its fruit pleasing to the eye, and letting the serpent in the Garden. God did all this, knowing ahead of time what would happen.

FK: "My DESIRE is not to do anything without God, i.e., on my own."

How do you know that is your desire when you and all the Reformed claim that God changed your heart (without your consent), and the Holy Spirit hijacked your mind and soul?

I know for sure that it was the desire of my new heart, and also for sure that it was not the desire of my old heart. God took the old away and replaced it with the new (2 Cor. 5:17). I'm sure that many Christians would feel violated at such a prospect, believing they were plenty good and righteous enough all by themselves, but we thank Him for it everyday. :)

5,196 posted on 04/28/2008 3:15:42 AM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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