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To: annalex; MarkBsnr; jo kus; kosta50; stfassisi; HarleyD; Dr. Eckleburg; blue-duncan; wmfights; ...
FK: "... if an atheist helps the old lady because "of a genuine love for her as a fellow human" and a Christian helps the old lady because of his love for God, that those two acts would count the same in God's eyes in terms of what is good and pleasing to God?"

Both are doing precisely the same thing because love of neighbor is love of God and love of God is love of neighbor. (I am not saying that the neighbor is God, merely that one expression of love and the other expression of love are different expressions of the same Christian obligation).

That's interesting. I didn't think one could love another in utter ignorance. Jesus said:

John 14:15 : "If you love me, you will obey what I command.

I suppose I do not see how it is possible for an atheist to "obey" God. I think a person must have an understanding of why he is doing what he is doing for it to count for obedience. In the military it would be "because my superior ordered me to". An atheist can't say that. To me, it's like because I am a Cardinals fan, whenever the Cardinals win they are "obeying" me personally. It just doesn't work like that. In order to truly obey, one must first have a command that he is aware of.

... Miracles, martyrdom, and spontaneous veneration of the faithful are all factors in the recognition. After all, if no one prays to the proposed saint, there is no way he can work a miracle attributable to him.

Oh, I don't think I understood that detail. So when we talk about the miracles of a proposed saint we are talking about those performed after he or she departed? I guess I assumed it would be for miracles performed during earthly life, like a healing. But if it is for miracles after departure, how can anyone miss? :)

4,991 posted on 04/19/2008 9:24:32 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper; MarkBsnr; jo kus; kosta50; stfassisi; HarleyD; Dr. Eckleburg; blue-duncan; ...
how it is possible for an atheist to "obey" God

Without knowing it, of course. When one listens to his conscience, he listens to God.

So when we talk about the miracles of a proposed saint we are talking about those performed after he or she departed?

Yes.

5,042 posted on 04/21/2008 6:01:30 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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