Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: kosta50; MarkBsnr; stfassisi; HarleyD; Dr. Eckleburg; blue-duncan; wmfights; Alamo-Girl; ...
But, FK, your own Reformed theology contradicts this: once you accept Jesus as your Savior, what you do doesn't matter as far as your assurance of inheritance of the Kingdom of God (another loaded OT term which was Christianized to mean something else), which is another a priori acceptance.

I don't see any contradiction. We don't earn our salvation by doing the right number of works, so our assurance is not dependent on doing the right number of works. But of course, that does NOT mean that what we do doesn't matter. God created us (in part) to do good works.

Eph 2:10 : For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

So, of course works are important.

The problem is that all these claims require absolute blind faith. Gravity doesn't. No one doubts gravity. There is a qualitative difference in a priori acceptance of biblical claims and physician reality. An a priori acceptance is a matter of choice. We choose to go to church (unless Reformers think otherwise, and feel that they are "frog marched" to go to church against their will).

Comparing scientific laws to whether something is historically true makes no sense. By your standards believing that George Washington ever lived is solely by blind faith.

You guys seem really stuck on this "frogmarching" thing. :) Before I was saved I had no interest in going to Church, but then God changed my heart and I did have the interest. Why do you guys think that is so horrible? :) I fully admit that reconciling that God is in control is a very difficult thing for men to do, but the Christian REALLY needs to do it:

1 Cor 6:19-20 : 19 Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own ; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.

----------------------

Just because we don't see radio waves doesn't mean they don't exist! The only reason we all agree they exist is because we can detect them. Believers, however, claim that what they believe is absolute truth because they have the "ears and the eyes" to "detect" God!

No, detection is not the issue. Faith is. Do you say that you cannot "detect" God simply from your human experience? I think most Christians would say that they CAN detect God this way. Demons detect God too, but they do not have faith. The eyes and ears are what confirm for believers that the words of scripture are true. Eyes and ears do not change that which is false into something that is true. They allow a believer to see what has been absolutely true all along.

Faith does not require proof (by definition). That's why it is futile to try to argue faith. If you have faith, you can not prove it, and you cannot be proven wrong either.

I disagree. I think ALL of us have proved we have faith by the evidence of our postings here. Whether we have PROVED REASONABLY that we have faith in the correct thing is a matter of opinion.

2,778 posted on 02/23/2008 10:38:58 PM PST by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2318 | View Replies ]


To: Forest Keeper
Whether we have PROVED REASONABLY that we have faith in the correct thing is a matter of opinion.

Nice distinction.

And now we can start worrying about what Faith is -- or what constitutes "reasonably". I would venture to say that one extreme version of the Tertullianish "What has Athens to do with Jerusalem?" is to reject reason altogether in favor of enthusiastic utterances.

2,787 posted on 02/24/2008 5:26:38 AM PST by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2778 | View Replies ]

To: Forest Keeper; MarkBsnr; stfassisi; HarleyD; Dr. Eckleburg; blue-duncan; wmfights; Alamo-Girl
Eph 2:10 : For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. So, of course works are important

That's no different than what the Jews believe. I would say, more than important; obligatory is more like it, according to the verses you site. God must have assigned works, according to the Reformed theology, even to those who don't believe. And He uses, according to the same, those works of evil for the greater good. So, it seems like works are an integral part of God's plan as you'd call it, and not just "important," but rather essential!.

Comparing scientific laws to whether something is historically true makes no sense. By your standards believing that George Washington ever lived is solely by blind faith

In the real world, we know by examining evidence. Our fancy is not a proof. By my standards there is a greater likelihood that G. Washington lived then if there was not a historical trace of him anywhere.

Better yet, if your doctor "assured" you that he is qualified but had nothing to show for it, I doubt you would subject yourself or your love dones to his care.

Again, I will ask you want would it take for you to believe that a NY subway homeless person is Jesus Christ if he said he was and then told you to leave your wife, kids and job and follow him?

You better believe you'd ask for some proof!

Do you say that you cannot "detect" God simply from your human experience?

I can honestly answer that if God had not been mentioned from my earliest days, I would have never assumed there was God. Just as, when I was a child, I never wondered where things came from. I was too busy being in awe of them. They were there and they were fascinating. And some were good and others were not so good. Some dogs bite and some don't.

It took me a long time to realize that "nature" does not know mercy and that mercy is not of this world. From there follow a number other realizations that lead me to believe that there is something "beyond" this world.

I think most Christians would say that they CAN detect God this way.

It's deductive and it doesn't sow that it's necessarily God, but something "not of this world."

Demons detect God too, but they do not have faith. The eyes and ears are what confirm for believers that the words of scripture are true

But those who use different scriptures will tell you the same thing. What proof do you have that yours are true? The spiritual "eyes" and "ears?" Don't be ridiculous. Eyes and ears prove nothing.

They allow a believer to see what has been absolutely true all along

Unsubstantiated claim lacking any proof.

I think ALL of us have proved we have faith by the evidence of our postings here

Just because we all say we have faith doesn't prove it. Words prove nothing. They are just words.

2,875 posted on 02/24/2008 9:28:33 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2778 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson