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To: Forest Keeper
Sometimes questioning is the same as mocking, and sometimes it isn't. It just depends on the presentation

Yes, to a large extent. But, if you think about it, mocking is never really questioning because the intent is not to get to the bottom of an issue, but to ridicule it.

We run into problems when we cannot agree on what the Bible means by "scriptures" and what "God-breathed" means. Those presuppositions are critical to our respective views of the Bible

Because we are talking about perceptions and not necessarily the truth. And who or what shapes our perceptions is behind our disagreements.

A criminal doesn't necessarily think he is doing something 'wrong' for stealing cigarettes at a gas station and killing the obstinate clerk who decided to be in his way. Man's gotta smoke, and if you don't have the money, well then feeding your addiction by stealing and killing seems perfectly "justified" in the criminal's mind! You are messing with his needs now...so we have to be careful before we assume that our position is "justified" because that's how we perceive it.

If you assume the Bible is inerrant word of God, than the Bible doesn't have to prove itself, and anyone who questions it is automatically wrong, and blasphemous, and that just may be sufficient 'justification' to be deprived of life.

Look at the case of a 23-year-old journalist in Afghanistan who will most probably end his young life on gallows. His crime: insult to Islam. The charge for which he has been found guilty and sentenced to death by an Afghan judge: he downloaded a page from the Internet, and shared it with his students.

The document asked why is having more than one wife in Islam acceptable when it come to men, but having more than one husband is not acceptable when it comes to women! (the answer is quite simple and not so ridiculous as one might think)

And, for this he is going to die? All this on presumption of those in power that the Koran is "holy" and "God-breathed" and that anyone questioning it is as good as dead—because to fundamentalist minds questioning the official truth is as good as mocking it?

This is fundamentalism, FK. It is the same mental process regardless which religion or political system is involved; it varies only in degree.

1,418 posted on 02/06/2008 5:30:18 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Uncle Chip; the_conscience; MarkBsnr

I mneant to include you in #1418. Sorry


1,423 posted on 02/06/2008 6:28:12 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; Uncle Chip; the_conscience; MarkBsnr
A criminal doesn't necessarily think he is doing something 'wrong' for stealing cigarettes at a gas station and killing the obstinate clerk who decided to be in his way. Man's gotta smoke, and if you don't have the money, well then feeding your addiction by stealing and killing seems perfectly "justified" in the criminal's mind! You are messing with his needs now...so we have to be careful before we assume that our position is "justified" because that's how we perceive it.

Something "like" what you describe happens every day in this country. However, I don't notice that too many of them hang around until the police arrive. They know full well that what they did will land them in jail, so they bolt. They can lie to themselves all they want about justification, but they also know that our laws stand against them. Therefore, I don't really see a comparison to our presuppositions about faith. I don't think either of us would say that "deep down" we really know we are wrong.

If you assume the Bible is inerrant word of God, than the Bible doesn't have to prove itself, and anyone who questions it is automatically wrong, and blasphemous, and that just may be sufficient 'justification' to be deprived of life.

There's nothing wrong with questioning the Bible. That's exactly what Paul told the Bereans to do, since Paul's teachings became part of the Bible. The Bible can certainly handle any objections raised. (Look at how Jesus handled Thomas' objections. Jesus didn't scold him for having doubts, Jesus just proved it.) The trick is whether the objector will accept a reasonable answer or not. If an objector has already made up his mind, then no reasonable argument will do any good. From there it is all in God's hands.

And, for this [the 23 y.o. journalist] is going to die? All this on presumption of those in power that the Koran is "holy" and "God-breathed" and that anyone questioning it is as good as dead—because to fundamentalist minds questioning the official truth is as good as mocking it?

So we see here a HUGE difference in the Muslim approach and the Reformed approach. Presumably, the Koran would not survive a test of reason, so they need it to be followed without question (to the point of death, as you describe). Our view is that the Bible is ready, willing, able, and even eager to take on all comers. The Bible is the greatest friend of reason. The Koran does not appear to be, so their leaders have to lead based on fear.

1,681 posted on 02/08/2008 7:19:22 PM PST by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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