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To: kosta50; Uncle Chip; the_conscience; MarkBsnr
A criminal doesn't necessarily think he is doing something 'wrong' for stealing cigarettes at a gas station and killing the obstinate clerk who decided to be in his way. Man's gotta smoke, and if you don't have the money, well then feeding your addiction by stealing and killing seems perfectly "justified" in the criminal's mind! You are messing with his needs now...so we have to be careful before we assume that our position is "justified" because that's how we perceive it.

Something "like" what you describe happens every day in this country. However, I don't notice that too many of them hang around until the police arrive. They know full well that what they did will land them in jail, so they bolt. They can lie to themselves all they want about justification, but they also know that our laws stand against them. Therefore, I don't really see a comparison to our presuppositions about faith. I don't think either of us would say that "deep down" we really know we are wrong.

If you assume the Bible is inerrant word of God, than the Bible doesn't have to prove itself, and anyone who questions it is automatically wrong, and blasphemous, and that just may be sufficient 'justification' to be deprived of life.

There's nothing wrong with questioning the Bible. That's exactly what Paul told the Bereans to do, since Paul's teachings became part of the Bible. The Bible can certainly handle any objections raised. (Look at how Jesus handled Thomas' objections. Jesus didn't scold him for having doubts, Jesus just proved it.) The trick is whether the objector will accept a reasonable answer or not. If an objector has already made up his mind, then no reasonable argument will do any good. From there it is all in God's hands.

And, for this [the 23 y.o. journalist] is going to die? All this on presumption of those in power that the Koran is "holy" and "God-breathed" and that anyone questioning it is as good as dead—because to fundamentalist minds questioning the official truth is as good as mocking it?

So we see here a HUGE difference in the Muslim approach and the Reformed approach. Presumably, the Koran would not survive a test of reason, so they need it to be followed without question (to the point of death, as you describe). Our view is that the Bible is ready, willing, able, and even eager to take on all comers. The Bible is the greatest friend of reason. The Koran does not appear to be, so their leaders have to lead based on fear.

1,681 posted on 02/08/2008 7:19:22 PM PST by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper; kosta50; Uncle Chip; Dr. Eckleburg; MarkBsnr

I’m afraid our friend Kosta has tossed up a cannard with the whole Muslim issue.

The irony is, of course, that Islam is a works based religon.

Thus when contemplating the cause for religous despotism would the final cause be a belief in direct revelation or would it be a belief that certain actions are meant to serve a purposeful goal.

Clearly the final causation for religous despotism lies in a belief that certain actions (works) will lead to a purposeful end (ie appease the Diety to acheive reward) while belief in direct revelation can only serve as a formal cause.

We saw the same phenomenon with the Romanist inquistion.


1,693 posted on 02/08/2008 10:32:17 PM PST by the_conscience ('The human mind is a perpetual forge of idols'.)
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