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To: MarkBsnr; wmfights
May I step in here, kosta? I think that kosta is trying to say that while there is evidence, there is not the overwhelming proof that would stop a mule in his traces and immediately start walking on the Way. We BELIEVE

Of course, you may, and thank you. You read what I wrote correctly: we believe.

A proof is overwhelming evidence. It doesn't take much for a child to learn that hot oven is not something to touch.

As you said, there is no such train-stopping evidence when it comes to things biblical. It simply must be believed, for no reason whatsoever. If I were to follow my reason I wouldn't believe, certainly not based on evidence presented by some "official" God's moutpieces.

That's why quoting the Bible proves nothing. The Bible doesn't give you faith. The Bible is meaningful only to those who already believe. It clarifies and puts thing in perspective.

It doesn't make one "know" more than what he or she already believes. It doesn't provide the seal of authenticity for something that has already been authenticated in your heart.

Christians go to church to pray to and praise the Lord, to thank Him for His abundance of blessings and to ask Him to help us stay in His light.

We read from the Gospels as lessons of humility and love, of mercy and of acts that we should imitate in our daily lives.

We don't "proof text" the Bible for veracity to gain further "knowledge" of God so that we can become His mouthpieces. Our acts, how we live, will show that God is in our life more than words will. and they will carry the message louder than the words.

Let's just remember that those Christians who died in Roman pogroms probably could not quote a single verse, let alone have the whole Bible memorized. But, they believed, and probably more than the modern-day Pharisees do.

1,373 posted on 02/05/2008 7:17:04 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50

A proof might provide rationalism cause for psychological certainty, but that is discernibly different than faith and belief. Faith is a system of spiritual perception, just as our five bodily senses might be used in empirical thinking, or as logic might be used in rational thinking. Empiricism and rationalism are void, though, when it comes to providing what God provides to us in Faith.

The Bible is used to express the Word of God. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.


1,381 posted on 02/05/2008 7:47:52 PM PST by Cvengr (Fear sees the problem emotion never solves. Faith sees & accepts the solution, problem solved.)
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To: kosta50; MarkBsnr
You read what I wrote correctly: we believe.

I don't doubt that you believe you do believe.

I question what you believe in though. Your Saviour doesn't seem to be the same Saviour that finished it all at Calvary. Your Saviour only got part of the job done. You have to commit to a lifetime of works in the hope that when you die you've done enough and been good enough to be saved.

My Saviour paid it all. I only have to believe and my Saviour will send the Holy Spirit to indwell me and guide me. My works are done from a desire to serve my Saviour. I don't expect them to buy anything.

John 6:47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.

1,382 posted on 02/05/2008 7:48:44 PM PST by wmfights (Believe - THE GOSPEL - and be saved)
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