Posted on 01/27/2008 7:56:14 PM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg
January 25, 2008
ESV Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
In recent days I have spent time in Lima and Sullana Peru and Mexico City and I have discovered that people by nature are the same. Man has a heart that is inclined to selfishness and idolatry. Sin abounds in the remotest parts of the land because the heart is desperately wicked. Thousands bow before statues of Mary and pray to her hoping for answers. I have seen these people stare hopelessly at Mary icons, Jesus icons, and a host of dead saints who will do nothing for them. I have talked with people who pray to the pope and say that they love him. I talked with one lady who said that she knew that Jesus was the Savior, but she loved the pope. Thousands bow before Santa Muerte (holy death angel) in hopes that she will do whatever they ask her. I have seen people bring money, burning cigarettes, beer, whiskey, chocolate, plants, and flowers to Santa Muerte in hopes of her answers. I have seen these people bowing on their knees on the concrete in the middle of public places to worship their idol. Millions of people come into the Basilica in Mexico City and pay their money, confess their sins, and stare hopelessly at relics in hope that their sins will be pardoned. In America countless thousands are chained to baseball games, football games, material possessions, and whatever else their heart of idols can produce to worship.
My heart has broken in these last weeks because the God of heaven is not honored as he ought to be honored. People worship the things that are created rather than worshiping the Creator. God has been gracious to all mankind and yet mankind has hardened their hearts against a loving God. God brings the rain on the just and unjust. God brings the beautiful sunrises and sunsets upon the just and unjust. God gives good gifts unto all and above all things he has given his Son that those who would believe in him would be saved. However, man has taken the good things of God and perverted them unto idols and turned their attention away from God. I get a feel for Jesus as he overlooked Jerusalem or Paul as he beseeched for God to save Israel. When you accept the reality of the truth of the glory of God is breaks your heart that people would turn away from the great and awesome God of heaven to serve lesser things. Moses was outraged by the golden calf, the prophets passionately preached against idolatry, Jesus was angered that the temple was changed in an idolatrous business, and Paul preached to the idolaters of Mars Hill by telling them of the unknown God.
I arrived back at home wondering how I should respond to all the idolatry that I have beheld in these last three weeks. I wondered how our church here in the states should respond to all of the idolatry in the world. What are the options? First, I suppose we could sit around and hope that people chose to get their life together and stop being idolaters. However, I do not know how that could ever happen apart from them hearing the truth. Second, I suppose we could spend a lifetime studying cultural issues and customs in hope that we could somehow learn to relate to the people of other countries. However, the bible is quite clear that all men are the same. Men are dead in sin, shaped in iniquity, and by nature are the enemies of God. Thirdly, we could pay other people or other agencies to go and do a work for us while we remain comfortably in the states. However, there is no way to insure that there will be doctrinal accuracy or integrity. If we only pay other people to take the gospel we will miss out on all of the benefits of being obedient to the mission of God. Lastly, we could seek where God would have us to do a lasting work and then invest our lives there for the glory of God. The gospel has the power to raise the dead in any culture and we must be willing to take the gospel wherever God would have us take it. It is for sure that our church cannot go to every country and reach every people group, so we must determine where God would have us work and seek to be obedient wherever that is.
It seems that some doors are opening in the Spanish speaking countries below us and perhaps God is beginning to reveal where we are to work. There are some options for work to be partnered with in Peru and there could be a couple of options in Mexico. The need is greater than I can express upon this paper for a biblical gospel to be proclaimed in Peru and Mexico. Oh, that God would glorify his great name in Peru and Mexico by using a small little church in a town that does not exist to proclaim his great gospel amongst a people who desperately need the truth.
I give thanks to the LORD for allowing me the privilege of going to these countries and broadening my horizons. The things that I have seen will be forever engraved upon my heart. I will long remember the pastors that I spent time with in Peru and I will never forget Adolfo who translated for me in Mexico. I will relish the time that I spent with Paul Washer and the others. When I think of church I will forever remember being on top of that mountain in Sullana at that church which had no electricity and no roof. I am convinced that heaven was looking down on that little church on top of that mountain and very few people on earth even know that it exist. Oh, God I pray that the things of this world will continue to grow dim and that God’s people will be caught up in his glorious presence.
Because of the truth: Pastor: J. Randall Easter II Timothy 2:19 "Our God is in heaven and does whatever He pleases."(Ps. 115:3) "He predestined us according to the good pleasure of His will."(Eph. 1:5) Those who have been saved have been saved for His glory and they are being made holy for this is the will of God. Are you being made holy? Spurgeon says, "If your religion does not make you holy it will damn you to hell."
That's avoiding my point. You said the church lapsed into heresy after Augustine. But Marian devotion absolutely preceded Augustine, and was certainly practiced by him.
Either Marian devotion is not heresy, or both Augustine and his church were heretical. Pick one.
There's plenty of idolatry everywhere in the West, and you know it.
The idolatry of money, power, entertainment, sex, athletic skill ... need I go on?
If one wishes to substitute the works of Calvin for the works of, St. Paul, St. Peter, St. Justin Martyr, St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Augustine et. al., then one must, theologically, pay the price.
I believe that all those not in full communion with the Church are going to pay that price. The arrogance of the WCF and the various government catechicms and confessions are not going to save the Reformed or those that profess them.
Perhaps the Reformed here are nice people and would make excellent neighbours. I would have little doubt about several of them. But the question of their souls is somewhat more grave. I fear for them.
They would quote Scripture as the devil would - for their own purposes.
Not a single jot nor tittle of that sentence is in any way inimical to Catholic faith.
From a Catholic perspective, St. John is considered to have erred in a semi-Pelagian direction. Some of his statements are not consistent with the canons of the Council of II Orange (a local council which is nevertheless considered to have dogmatic force, because of a later Papal endorsement of its decrees).
Harley is therefore wrong if he implies that St. John's semi-Pelagian teachings were, or are tolerated after II Orange (AD 529).
However, St. John died in AD 435. He was never condemned or censured in his lifetime, and so cannot be considered guilty of any formal heresy whatsoever, anymore than St. Thomas Aquinas can be considered guilty of formal heresy for rejecting the Immaculate Conception of Our Lady, which was not defined dogma for 600 years after his death.
This is false, or at least very misleading. We are saved by adoption in the family of God. There are no amount of works you can for anyone to earn adoption into their family. It has to depend on their gracious invitation.
Real Catholics and real Orthodox are here, and are perfectly capable of presenting our own beliefs.
Same with Origen whose ideas certainly drifted into heresy, but were not formally condemned in his lifetime.
Sorry, but the stakes are too high here, and time is running out. F-— Mexico and F-— Peru. They will never...NEVER get better. We have to try to save this country.
You appear to be suggesting that Jesus didn't mean it when He said, I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak, for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." (Matt. 12:36-37)
And you're perhaps suggesting also that Jesus didn't really mean it at the end of the Parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector, when He said of the tax collector who approached in repentance, I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted." (Luke 18:14)
Jesus makes quite clear throughout the Gospels that, although God alone can grant eternal life, we nevertheless bear some responsibility for how we will be judged. Jesus says many times, in various ways, "you must do...." (The Sermon on the Mount is full of examples of this.)
And finally, consider the alternative: suppose we are in no way responsible for the way we are judged. It means that nothing we do matters -- and it means that there's no such thing as sin, the entire Bible notwithstanding.
What generally happens at this point, is one of your group attempts to engage in a Scripture contest. I give one example, you give a counter-example, and it goes back and forth, both sides quoting passages to support their position. But of course, the fact that one can have a Scripture contest at all, shows the weakness of your position: you're left having to explain why all of those statements of Jesus don't really mean what a plain reading would suggest.
The more defensible position of is simply to acknowledge that God is sovereign, and we are responsible; and simply accept that what's in the middle is a mystery.
In any case, we must always behave as if what we do matters. Otherwise ... well, I think you can fill that one in for yourself.
We have no arguments with our Sister Church. We have honest and fraternal disagreements on some theological issues of shared beliefs.
If you want to be educated about the current Catholic view on the Filioque, I recomment you familiarize yourself with the An Agreed statement of the North American Orthodox-Catholic Theological Consultation Saint Paul's College, Washington, d.c. October, 2003 One of the last recommendations of thet Conference says:
You should also be aware that the current Pope has recited the Creed without (and with) the Filioque, and that most Eastern-Catholic Churches, especially the Ukrianian Church, and the Melkite Church sing the Symbol of Faith (Creed) without the Filioque and that no one except your outdated New Advent considers it an 'error.'
Most reformed will tell you that the Catholic Church is "semi-pelagian" because you as well as the Orthodox side of the Church believe that we cooperate with God's will.
Orange II received Papal endorsement but that in and of itself did not make it a dogma in the Undivided Church (it required an Ecumenical Council).
The Church to this day teaches two different aspects of the original sin, and origin of the souls. Just because the east never agreed with St. Augustine does not make him a "heretic."
Obviously the Church can live with both as neither affect the Trinitarian, Christiological or Mariological dogmas of the Church.
Are there special decoder glasses needed to read your canons or are they plain to all who read them?
"If anyone says that the good works of the one justified are in such manner the gifts of God that they are not also the good merits of him justified;... let him be anathema."[
I guess they never heard of his Retractions? Blessed Augustine never allowed his pride to be greater than the Church. he always deferred in the end to the Church, and rightfully so. He was as Catholic as Catholic can be.
What you said earlier is not identical to that, sorry. The canon is clearly speaking of those who are already justified, not of earning merits to obtain salvation that has not already been won.
And no, you don't get to tell us what Trent means any more than we get to tell you what the Westminster Confession or Luther's Small Catechism means.
That's something we'll have to figure out in that big reunion council we keep talking about. ;-)
The Beatitudes are clearly works-based salvational promise. Not even faith is involved. It's all mitzvah.
Does not Chirst say to the rich man to sell everything he has and follow Him? Where does Jesus of the Gospels teach Deformed Pauline theology of the Reformers that we are saved by grace alone? Where does the Old Testament teach that?
"Pray as if everything depended on God. Work as if everything depended on you." -- Mother Teresa of Calcutta.
;-)
I think +John Cassian and +Augsutine will be a relatively low priority for the blessed council. If we can get to define our mroe important misunderstandings the rest will fall in place.
I am not very familiar with +John Cassain, but I doubt that he advocated such unorthodox beliefs as Pelagius (allegedly) advocated, i.e. that we don't need baptism.
Neither of your Scripture verses defeats my proposition. Both verses can be read with the faith proposition, in the first case the context actually proves my point that true faith has “fruits” that prove a man’s gratitude. In the second case, a humble man is one who does not take account of his worthiness, who does not exalt himself with some action he may have performed. This is the definition of faith. It that looks outside itself for justification.
I’m afraid that the rest of your post reads like a liberal Christian textbook. The problem your having is that you are taking isolated texts of Scripture and putting together some conclusion without considering the over-arching story.
That truly will be a blessed day, when both lungs breath fully together.
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