Posted on 01/27/2008 7:56:14 PM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg
January 25, 2008
ESV Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
In recent days I have spent time in Lima and Sullana Peru and Mexico City and I have discovered that people by nature are the same. Man has a heart that is inclined to selfishness and idolatry. Sin abounds in the remotest parts of the land because the heart is desperately wicked. Thousands bow before statues of Mary and pray to her hoping for answers. I have seen these people stare hopelessly at Mary icons, Jesus icons, and a host of dead saints who will do nothing for them. I have talked with people who pray to the pope and say that they love him. I talked with one lady who said that she knew that Jesus was the Savior, but she loved the pope. Thousands bow before Santa Muerte (holy death angel) in hopes that she will do whatever they ask her. I have seen people bring money, burning cigarettes, beer, whiskey, chocolate, plants, and flowers to Santa Muerte in hopes of her answers. I have seen these people bowing on their knees on the concrete in the middle of public places to worship their idol. Millions of people come into the Basilica in Mexico City and pay their money, confess their sins, and stare hopelessly at relics in hope that their sins will be pardoned. In America countless thousands are chained to baseball games, football games, material possessions, and whatever else their heart of idols can produce to worship.
My heart has broken in these last weeks because the God of heaven is not honored as he ought to be honored. People worship the things that are created rather than worshiping the Creator. God has been gracious to all mankind and yet mankind has hardened their hearts against a loving God. God brings the rain on the just and unjust. God brings the beautiful sunrises and sunsets upon the just and unjust. God gives good gifts unto all and above all things he has given his Son that those who would believe in him would be saved. However, man has taken the good things of God and perverted them unto idols and turned their attention away from God. I get a feel for Jesus as he overlooked Jerusalem or Paul as he beseeched for God to save Israel. When you accept the reality of the truth of the glory of God is breaks your heart that people would turn away from the great and awesome God of heaven to serve lesser things. Moses was outraged by the golden calf, the prophets passionately preached against idolatry, Jesus was angered that the temple was changed in an idolatrous business, and Paul preached to the idolaters of Mars Hill by telling them of the unknown God.
I arrived back at home wondering how I should respond to all the idolatry that I have beheld in these last three weeks. I wondered how our church here in the states should respond to all of the idolatry in the world. What are the options? First, I suppose we could sit around and hope that people chose to get their life together and stop being idolaters. However, I do not know how that could ever happen apart from them hearing the truth. Second, I suppose we could spend a lifetime studying cultural issues and customs in hope that we could somehow learn to relate to the people of other countries. However, the bible is quite clear that all men are the same. Men are dead in sin, shaped in iniquity, and by nature are the enemies of God. Thirdly, we could pay other people or other agencies to go and do a work for us while we remain comfortably in the states. However, there is no way to insure that there will be doctrinal accuracy or integrity. If we only pay other people to take the gospel we will miss out on all of the benefits of being obedient to the mission of God. Lastly, we could seek where God would have us to do a lasting work and then invest our lives there for the glory of God. The gospel has the power to raise the dead in any culture and we must be willing to take the gospel wherever God would have us take it. It is for sure that our church cannot go to every country and reach every people group, so we must determine where God would have us work and seek to be obedient wherever that is.
It seems that some doors are opening in the Spanish speaking countries below us and perhaps God is beginning to reveal where we are to work. There are some options for work to be partnered with in Peru and there could be a couple of options in Mexico. The need is greater than I can express upon this paper for a biblical gospel to be proclaimed in Peru and Mexico. Oh, that God would glorify his great name in Peru and Mexico by using a small little church in a town that does not exist to proclaim his great gospel amongst a people who desperately need the truth.
I give thanks to the LORD for allowing me the privilege of going to these countries and broadening my horizons. The things that I have seen will be forever engraved upon my heart. I will long remember the pastors that I spent time with in Peru and I will never forget Adolfo who translated for me in Mexico. I will relish the time that I spent with Paul Washer and the others. When I think of church I will forever remember being on top of that mountain in Sullana at that church which had no electricity and no roof. I am convinced that heaven was looking down on that little church on top of that mountain and very few people on earth even know that it exist. Oh, God I pray that the things of this world will continue to grow dim and that God’s people will be caught up in his glorious presence.
Because of the truth: Pastor: J. Randall Easter II Timothy 2:19 "Our God is in heaven and does whatever He pleases."(Ps. 115:3) "He predestined us according to the good pleasure of His will."(Eph. 1:5) Those who have been saved have been saved for His glory and they are being made holy for this is the will of God. Are you being made holy? Spurgeon says, "If your religion does not make you holy it will damn you to hell."
: The Holy Spirit’s job is to guide believers to all truth. “Believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit until our day of redemption. He is not here as some quasi-force to guide a nebulous Church that has shown they make poor decisions from time to time at best. He is real and personal to each believer.
“John 14:17 the Spirit of Truth, whom the world cannot receive because it does not see Him nor know Him. But you know Him, for He dwells with you and shall be in you.”
Amen and amen!
Nice one. I hadn’t heard that before.
***You keep telling us that but you never give evidence or support for your dissension other than...you choose not to agree with us and our “evil theologies.”***
Most of your posts contain Scriptural evidence that either does not relate to or fully support the Reformed claims. I have posted many rebuttals that are mostly ignored. Scriptural evidence for the establishment of the Church and its role are also ignored.
And it is not up to me to choose theology, it is up to God to formulate it and up to His Church to teach it. That alone should be the death of the Reformation - the repudiation of His Church, never mind the imaginative theologies that have come out out of it, and its spawn.
***Mark, wasn’t it you who had (has) trouble telling us what the Gospel is?***
No, it was the Reformed side.
I said that the summary of the Gospels is the Lord’s Prayer, the Two Commandments of Jesus, and the Sermon on the Mount.
Your side contended that the summary of the Gospels is “Christ died.”
I think that this is an excellent side by side comparison of the two theologies and justification in itself for choosing Catholic belief over the Reformed.
Evidently the Reformed have trouble understanding which people that Jesus is referring to.
If you like, we can go through a step by step program.
***I’m not at all sure what you’re trying to say in this post, but then, a lot of your comments appear cryptic and thus pointless.***
This is why I’ve asked about the extent of your contact with the real world. I understand that I am not getting through to you and would like to adjust my delivery to be able to get through.
Nice eyes.
Reminds me of someone. http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/manson/manson1.jpg
Indeed it is interesting, which is why I chose it. It's a swell description of your behavior. But of course, as usual you will continue to ignore the log in your own eye....
The best summary of the Gospel is given by Paul in I Corinthians 15:1-4:
"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the Gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand, by which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
"For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, and that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures."
That is the short version of the Gospel, but notice that twice Paul identifies the scriptures as central to the meaning of the Gospel, providing the foundation and context thereof.
Hm. Well, I was writing on the fly, and your distinction seems rather pedantic. I was not giving a roadmap to salvation, but rather a partial list of the important things all Christians hold in common. Surely you can admit the difference?
That is why our differences aren't cosmic, they are essential in determining who truly is a Christian.
Uhhh, ok. Which means, of course, that you're certain that YOU are a "true Christian," and as such you feel qualified to pass judgment on everybody else.
Seriously: doesn't that statement make you just a little bit uncomfortable? It sounds more than a little like this parable:
He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: "Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.' But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me, a sinner!' I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted." (Luke 18:9-14)
***I sincerely doubt the Holy Spirit would have “guided” pedophiles into the Church to cause multi-billion dollar costs.***
He didn’t. It was men who did it and men who allowed it. We fell short and sinned.
***The Holy Spirit’s job is to guide believers to all truth. Believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit until our day of redemption.***
They are marked, not put into a plastic baggies. The Holy Spirit guides, but so does the great deceiver.
***Well, the Church’s teachings on the Holy Spirit is a big one. For it to say, “The Holy Spirit is guiding us-not anyone else.” is a bit cultish in my mind.***
The Church does not say that the Holy Spirit only resides in the Catholic Church. It says that the Church is the Church of the Triune God. The Church is the creation of the Holy Spirit, not vice versa. God does what He does. The problem is that how does one know whether he is following the Spirit or not? The world is full of people who have cultish beliefs that can be ‘proven’ from Scripture.
But even the devil can quote Scripture for his own purposes and did during the temptation of Christ. If Scripture can be used by the devil, then another guide is required. And Jesus provided that: the Church.
No -- I think it is more like this from the Apostle Paul:
"I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom. Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears. And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."[II Timothy 4:1-4]
How are you doing with those scriptures???
You must be very pleased, not to be like us tax collectors....
In the post to which this one points there's a variation on the "my mind is made up, don't confuse me with the facts" issue. There's a frank admission that the poster doesn't know what he's talking about, but he does know it's "an abomination".
That alone makes this one a keeper.
That is so true. Well said.
At those moments, it really hits home how undeserving I truly am.
...finished work at Calvary!
If it is finished the role of the church is not that of a dispenser of grace, or a selector of the elect, but a place of worship and fellowship.
Actually the Scripture that pre-dates the ones you (Uncle Chip) have offered is in the first chapter of Luke, verses 68-79, which is often referred to as the “little Gospel”.
“Blessed be the Lord, the God of Israel;
He has come to his people and set them free.
He has raised up for us a mighty Savior,
born of the house of his servant David.
Through his holy prophets He promised of old
that He would save us from our enemies,
from the hands of all who hate us.
He promised to show mercy to our fathers:
and to remember his holy covenant.
This was the oath He swore to our father Abraham:
to set us free from the hands of our enemies,
free to worship Him without fear,
holy and righteous in his sight
all the days of our life.
You, my child, shall be called the prophet of the Most High,
for you will go before the Lord to prepare his way,
to give his people knowledge of salvation
by the forgiveness of their sins.
In the tender compassion of our God
the dawn from on high shall break upon us,
to shine on those who dwell in darkness
and the shadow of death
and to guide our feet into the way of peace.”
Mark, I understand and commend you for bringing in the Ten Commandments and the Sermon on the Mount and the Beatitudes. I feel confident that you already understood/understand the Gospel as presented in Luke 1, and that your references are from the OT teaching of God’s laws, the first teaching from the Lord and his revelation of the need for us to live by the Beatitudes that He taught us as a response to his Gospel.
It’s a more excellent way for all of us to acknowledge the good meaning of others who post, and to make the effort to see the good intentions of others.
So-—the “little Gospel” is given to us when Joseph and Mary presented Jesus to Simeon in the temple, according to Hebrew law. And St. Paul comes much later to explain it more fully to the early Church.
ROE
***HD-***Funny, I don’t believe Paul ever said Jesus was wrong.***
MarkBsnr-We never said that.
Please refer back to post #438***
Okay:
***Paul didn’t have a problem telling Peter, James, and John they were wrong and stood condemned.***
So Paul is entirely right, and Peter, James, John, and Jesus are entirely wrong?
You guys are entirely funny. The misunderstanding of Paul trumps the words of Jesus.
We never said that Paul ever said that Jesus was wrong. I’ll let that stand.
***Those who know me and have been here for some time knows that I don’t take my Reformed theology from the Reformers; I take it from Augustine. A careful reading of scriptures and an openess of heart confirms everything the Reformers state.***
Read my tagline. That is a quote from St. Augustine. Do you agree with him there?
***Who gave you the ability to repent?
Who gave you your faith?***
By the Grace of God alone, we have the ability to repent. Without Grace, we cannot.
God gave us our faith.
Funny, I don’t feel any different.
Thank you, it is very clear if you want to understand.
notice that twice Paul identifies the scriptures as central to the meaning of the Gospel, providing the foundation and context thereof.
Great point about the Scriptures.
Matthew was a tax collector in his old life before he met Jesus and believed the Gospel and became an evangelist. Take a lesson --
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.
