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To: MarkBsnr; Marysecretary
Jesus left us His Church.

So are you saying that Jesus came to give us 'His Church'? What's that based on?

When I read the earliest recordings of Jesus (The New Testament) I see that He left us the Holy Spirit.

John 14:16-18,26,27 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

[Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.


If your indwelling Holy Spirit is confirmed by the Church, then I will believe it. If you repudiate the Church, then logically, you cannot be led by the Holy Spirit.

This is backwards of what we see in the New Testament. First, you don't see anywhere in the New Testament that the 'church' confirms the Holy Spirit. What you see is that the Holy Spirit is a gift to those that believe.

John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet [given]; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Act 2:38-39 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call.


Second, the New Testament is filled with Paul and others instructing the church to be sanctified or purified through the Spirit.

1Cor. 6:9-11 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.


Obviously, the church is filled with falible humans who need a perfect comforter and guide. That comforter and guide is the Holy Spirit.
649 posted on 01/31/2008 6:28:58 AM PST by ScubieNuc (There is only ONE mediator between man and God....Jesus. 1 Timothy 2:5)
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To: ScubieNuc

***This is backwards of what we see in the New Testament. First, you don’t see anywhere in the New Testament that the ‘church’ confirms the Holy Spirit. What you see is that the Holy Spirit is a gift to those that believe. ***

The Apostles received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. Then, they were commanded to go and baptize - to effect the transfer of the Holy Spirit into the unbelievers.

***Obviously, the church is filled with falible humans who need a perfect comforter and guide. That comforter and guide is the Holy Spirit.***

Amen, brother. I agree with you absolutely.


663 posted on 01/31/2008 7:34:06 AM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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